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Thanks, evolution! (via +John Fillers)
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I wish that "tiny head stick on his nose".
oh Praise the mighty TurkeySaur!
Don't forget to thank the Iraqis and Afghanis for all the oil they "willingly gave to the people of the USA" which ultimately form the fuel you use to cook your turkeys!
so good and very funny-look at the expresiions
My seven year old son literally just said this at Thanksgiving dinner. 
Actually, modern farm raised turkeys have been bred and therefore genetically selected for by man.
+David Maz, sounds like you've got a handful there!  (and I'm referring to your son, not the ball of meat)
I'm the only one who finds this sad?  Replacing the Creator with a stinking word called 'evolution'  What a false religion.  
How does a dinosaur turn into a ball
How can you be religious and pray, and be athiests at the same time?
I think evolution is science fact
too many atheists in Google +, thinking of deleting my account. 
criously,adam...ow can u jx say is a science fact;meaning u dnt blv in it,do you?
And now some stores kick off Black Friday sales at 8pm ruining Thanksgiving! Very sad.
there is no god. he is a figment of your imagination
+Josh Benda Get with the times dude! Sounds like you are from the dinosaur era too. 
Ok.. Thanks G-d for making Turkeys giant meat chunks with small heads. Almost as funny.  Hey.. How do we know G-d intended us the be carnivours ? He made cows out of steak , of course
J Krah
Yeah and thanks evolution for fruit. Love how you took billions of years to make the orange and apple.
evolution? yeah it seems funny..
If you can imagine it - it exists!  This is a basic tenant of Science Fiction.  Are you proposing that we argue with Science Fiction?
This is sad. To replace God with Evolution. =(
I suppose you believe in Santa too LOL!
Do you think that so called word "EVOLUTION" is real how many mokeys have beome human and how spiceses of others turn other creatures?
No, I don't believe in santa. But I believe there is a God out there.
+Simon Stuart there are two problems with your comment 1 U.S. companies lost out on bidding of Iraqi oil so the U.S. does not directly get its oil from Iraq as you stated.,8599,1948787,00.html
Now for part 2 Afghanistan has no oil in for anyone to take. Maybe that's why their biggest money maker before the war was opium. I understand that this may all contradict what you heard during your drum circle jerks but please take a second to try to back up your comments with reality. By the way nice dog.
Yes, Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved. =)
+Josh Benda We didn't come from monkeys! We came from a common ancestor of the chimpanzee! Monkeys aren't even in the same species as the great apes! Do you know anything about evolution?
I've never seen a croc-a-turkey.
I've always wondered how early man decided which animals would make decent meals. Like how did they decide not to make the horse a riding animal & the steer an eating animal? Lol! And how did the pilgrims bake their turkey????
+Edward V'Kanty Maybe cows were never fast runners and weren't strong enough to hold someone on their back for long periods. 
haha lol very funny :D
Of course the turkey is an example of artificial selection: The animal was bred for it's high meat yield. The modern farm-turkey is quite a different critter from the wild-turkey that was eventually domesticated by man. 
If GOD is in the numbers, maybe GOD is evolving with us?
Issac how is tht post not funny?
I stopped celebrating Thanksgiving a few years back when I found out that the original Thanksgiving was for "victory" over an Indian tribe that was wiped out by settlers. I personaly think Thanksgiving Day should be turned into Repentance day for the countless crimes of Western imperialism and colonialism. 
regardless of your opinions, evolution is fact. 
John V.
this ofcourse suppose to be a "joke" for people who don't believe in evolution. who believe that the earth is just 6000 y.o.  and are too stupid to understand evolution. 
I too would like to thank evolution for turning some species of humans into zombies with small brains
but we see the results of evolution in all aspects of life

So you believe in God even though you are unable to see it?
If you think about it, we are all just evolved fish--but we are the type fish that objects to being eaten despite how much we eat of others...
not everyone believes in your god tho. i will however thank the farmer who raised the turkey, the workers that killed cleaned and packaged the turkey. the truck driver that shipped the turkey. the education that allowed the carer to afford the turkey. oh, and the super massive stars that exploded and provided all of the material. thanks for that.
+Simon Stuart Don't know about you, but I use natural gas to cook. Most of which doesn't come from the middle east, even when we're importing it. The US only imports 12% of what we use. (source:
I made the universe. Have faith and it'll be true. I made Saturn and I liked it so I put a ring on it. I got bored 2000 years ago and made an antikythera mechanism as a hint for you guys. And could you quit praying to me? I help those who help themselves, and despite what you've been told, I don't like my ass being kissed. Live your life, enjoy it, and remember I will always love you. After all, I made you for my entertainment. Happy thanksgiving.
And we thank you funny posts for making,everybody laugh so hard that it made me peer my pants 
Ill never believe that i came from any thing but God having made man .Any one that do not believe in Him needs to read the first book of the Bible .Then count there ribs Man has one less . But happy Thanksgiving to all .
stevie, thats what we call willful ignorance. you choose to ignore all of the evidence showing how life evolves over millions of years. and the bible was written by man and only proves itself (i.e. the existence of the bible proves that the bible exist)
I take it you have never read the first book .So how can you say one is right over the other .Show me your proof.
God didnt write the Bible Stevie, Men like You and I did.
They were telling stories, just like the Brothers Grimm.
Grow up, get an education, USE you Brain, stevie.
I cannot anymore ignore the fact that we ignore the proof of Jesus Christ
The apostle Paul wrote 
" And even if I gave all I have to the poor and give my body to be  burned . Without love. I am nothing."
Jimmy Widgie , you may think your smart but your just one of a thousand bumbling atheistic dumbos
I ask what why you believe nothing exploded into everything.  Sledgie Wedgie . You actually deserve a spiritual deserve
The number of ribs (24; twelve on each side) was noted by the Flemish anatomist Vesalius in his key work of anatomy De humani corporis fabrica in 1543, setting off a wave of controversy, as it was traditionally assumed from the Biblical story of Adam and Eve that men's ribs would number one less than women's.[3] Variations in the number of ribs occur. About 1 in 200-500 people have an additional cervical rib, and there is a female predominance.[4] Intrathoracic supernumerary ribs are extremely rare.[5]

(references are included in the original; the Bible is wrong about this)
gasp... kerry sure showed us! he quoted the bible! well now we all know for certain jesus is real!
+stevie lewis Simpler explanation is that the whole rib story thing is just that: a story made up to explain an observation anyone could make
why do i think that kerry? because all of the evidence we have points to that. does that mean its true? we dont know yet. but we do know that from everything we can observe we live in a flat universe with a total energy of 0
There's to people in this world. People going to heaven. And people not going. Welcome to the I'm Not Going To Heaven Because I Don't Believe Club. Also known as the INGTHBIDC.
in g the bid c
RE: Santa is a myth. There's probably about as much verifiable evidence for Santa as for most religions. How does one evaluate one myth as being more "truth" than another?
kerry... what can you understand about us not believing in your religion? there is 0 evidence for what you speak so we simply choose not to put all of this "faith" into it neccessary to keep it afloat 
+Kerry Arnold, yes...  that's a good argument.  Scare people into believing.  An Omnipotent being will surely accept that as a good reason for admittance to paradise over the way people actually behave.  Why would you even want to believe in a God that would be so arbitrary, giving absolutely no regard to the true quality of the people in question?
Just for the record: the Hebrew does not ever SAY rib, it says side and it was where the Hebrew language puts the seat of emotion. It was saying, out of the "heart of man He made woman"

He brought her to Adam and He gave him a mate because it was NOT good for him to be alone--mind you it never says that it was bad for woman to be alone, only man. Adam misinterpreted this and named her, but it states nowhere she needed to be named.

Ever since Adam, man has not understood the place of women, and that is the point of it. Not that Eve was literally from his rib, but that it was bad to leave men to their own devices.

I guess I will just have to keep believing In God .And ill still keep praying  for the ones that think The bible is a Brothers Grimm  story .It seams that any time the word God is wrote Or Jesus Every one that don't believe come unglued .
+John Pesich, yup.  It's all a made-up story to explain things to people who did not have the the capability (knowledge/science capability, not mental capability) to know the truth.
Mr. White ,
Let's argue you into believing all night .
And how can you doubt someone who  died for you ,
Oh and don't call me kerry
call me Just Another Servant
of corse we do stevie, because we grow tired of seeing people use that little book as an excuse to impose their will on other ppls lives. they beat us over the head with it and try and tell ppl that the very scientific method that brought us all of the technology we use today is simply wrong just because it goes against some vague writings in an old book.
I'm sure cooked right dinosaur,would be good,island chicken is iguana 
+Kerry Arnold, thousands of people have died for me and others, willfully putting themselves in harm's way and ultimately giving their own lives to protect a belief that allows the society in which I live to continue.  I have great respect for all who do so.

On the assumption that Jesus was a real person (and it seems likely he was), I have great respect for him and some of the changes he brought about.  I do not, however, believe him to be the son of a god but rather an ordinary man who brought about extraordinary changes.

There have been many such men over the years; why deify only one?
James, and other atheists
You make me sick . I don't want you to be punished ,so ask for forgiveness. What if you died. What would happen if there was no God. Oh and that "little book" is the source of my wisdom. And your pittance (i don't know if that's a word, I just like it) against it makes you ignorant
You atheists are a pain in the neck. Ever heard of "family thanksgiving"
+Kerry Arnold, that's not an argument.  "Oh, it would be too bad if there wasn't so there must be."  Wishes don't make truth.  "It's too bad I don't have a billion dollars!"  (Nope.  Didn't  work.)
Why do I believe, 
because i know he died and i feel it when i think about it .
Leo Lee
All in! Great Post.
oh you dont like me so i must be wrong and you must be right! i get it kerry berry. that whole logic thing is a pain in the ass, aint it?
I love the "I know you are but what am I?" argument all the religion followers use when they know there's holes in their belief. I wonder if Christian's believe God created Muslim's and if Muslims's believe Allah created Christian's? .....I'm guessing not.... 
also "what if i died?" is a pointless question. EVERYTHING dies. so WHEN i die and there is no god then im dead. i was dead for untold eons before i was born and i never once suffered the slightest inconvenience.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works; There is none that doeth good.
Fo sho. Also bless us for the dipshits that don't believe in evolution . . . at least for the entertainment. 
@Brian and others, I never said it is a made up story. I feel it is no-more made up then the story that says we are lung fish.

I feel that one of the problems with the lung fish ideas is the problem of deep time--I am not saying deep time doesn't exist, but it is the audacity of people that say they know for sure what happened millions and billions of years ago both as to evolution and biogenesis.

We have issues with finding bones and knowing if they belonged to people 100 years ago and have even greater issues knowing much of value of events that happened 4,000 years ago--yet we say with full force that we know and theists are idiots about what happened 5,000 times greater than from here to Jesus.

We "know" for sure what happened 500,000 times before when Sumer had been formed from a small tribe.

Lets be honest, to say things things for certain about deep time is the new flat earth... 
All I know is that my heavenly father created the universe 
and everything in it. I'm shure he could pull off a simple 
parlor trick like : Evolution". Some times we don't give him
enough credit.
you dont know that michael, you assume that. 
I thank evolution for allowing humans to thrive on plants instead of killing innocent animals. 
A lot of people here who haven't opened an introductory biology textbook.  There's nothing debatable about evolution at this point.  The process has been observed in both labs and nature.
Replace fantasy with reality. To a child this is sad, to adults it is Liberating.
+James Sledge When was evolution proven and became fact? I always thought it was simply the most credible theory, my bad.
evolution is fact, the theory of evolution is our attempt to explain all of the facts.
Around the time we understood vaccines that needed to be administered annually...
+Michael Stephenson I am with you there, although I wouldn't exactly call it a parlour trick; rather I would call it quite awesome.

On the other hand, as to turkeys (I am sure others have probably made this same argument) turkeys as we know them are not quite the same as the wild turkeys of yesteryear ... especially commercially farmed turkeys.  There's a pretty phenomenal amount of breeding, plus the heavy dosing with hormones and controlled diet, etc etc etc that goes into making the Turkey we have on our dinner table.
The problem is +Daniel Walmsley People don't know what a "Scientific theory" is which is why people think "Intelligent design" is a theory, ID is an idea, not a theory, it's not even a hypothesis. 
+Kamal Tailor
Harassing people goes against the ToS, too. Their choice of anonymity does not affect the merits of what they say, or the lack thereof. Judge the argument, not the speaker.
Evidence for Evolution:  If God created turkeys for Mankind, they'd come pre-stuffed and sweat butter.
if we haven't evolved then where are all the cavemen? 
@Eric Davis  The only point I am trying to make is that you cannot say that evolution is fact, would you disagree?
you can say evolution is a fact because there is more evidence for it than you could possibly understand.
How much more factual does something get beyond consistent observations in both lab and natural settings?
Just one of the many theories

Oh I can. +Daniel Walmsley It's going on all around us it's testable has been tested in numerous ways repeatidly and has yet to be disproved. That makes it a FACT. Try that with issues of Fantasy. 
So the religious believe in almost all Science. The stuff that gives them their comfortable lives. Like antibiotics, TV, computers, gps, smartphones, cars, airplanes etc . There only Science they don't like is the 'crazy' bits that shows what a crock of shit their religion is ?
How convenient.
Tell you what.
Everyone who doesn't believe in evolution- we should deny them all modern science. Make them live like people did hundreds of years ago.
And leave the rest of us to our 'crazy science'. Hmm, no takers ?
+michael prudhomme Then we can discount your "theory" with the same logic.  The difference is evolution has libraries full of evidence and can be observed.
and what is your argument for that dan?
Then neither is the theory of plate tectonics.  Or germ theory.  Or the theory of gravity.

If you don't understand the distinction between a scientific theory and everyday, common use of the word "theory," then you shouldn't begin to enter this conversation.
If that's evolution ur practically eAting ur cuzin not that he Duznt taste good just sayn
+Caleb Reece There's plenty of evidence.  Open a book.  Or use that nice little Google thing.  I hear it works wonders.
+friendz can som1 tel me d diference btw evolution nd revolution?
Many of you are suggesting that there is inductive reasoning involved. There is not. Evolution is testable Fact. The common use of the word" theory", is not anything like "idea". just because you commonly misuse it doesn't make it correct. 
+Eric Davis If its fact then its unchangeable unquestionable. What if Einstein had taken the same approach when he question the passage of time relative to the observer. Mainstream science thought he was crazy. All I'm trying to say is question what you think is absolute. You may be wrong, also you may be right.
+Daniel Walmsley what you dont seem to understand.... space and time are facts... they exist, there is no denying that. what einstine did was develop theories trying to explaine them. Relativity. 
+Daniel Walmsley nonsense. What you are saying, is what science is, questioning and proving how things are. Challenging current thinking is what they do.

But with 47% of this country believing in a 10,000 year earth, how if these ideas are what we challenge, the continued adherence to stone age ideas and and thinking.

  Einstein came up with a Hypothesis which then became the "Theory of Relativity" after it was Tested and found to be Fact. It is an augmentation to Newtonian physics as is Quantum Physics. All are Facts. Now M-theory or string theory are inductive theories, last I knew but still theories. 
Its stupid people think evolution actually created things!
Someone should read Darwin once in a while. He's not much at all like what you've heard. A real eye-opener. 
I think some of this is stupidity, saying people can't use the Bible to disprove evolution is like a Christian saying disprove creation--but don't use silly science.

I would say this,there are different parts of disproving evolution that fall into several categories.

1. The first issue with evolution being that the math doesn't add up. In order to make polypeptides amino acids would need to be in the observable universe to happen unaided. This is actually less probable than say an ark filled with animals survived rising water at a rate or 7.7 feet per hour for forty days.

2. Life would have died in the collision that would have had to happen (something the size of mars) to give the 24° tilt on the plane during a formable time in evolution (sometime after the formation of life at 3.8 GA, and does not include the strike that happened at 65 MYA that may have killed the dinosaurs.

3. We are talking about deep time and it is almost impossible to prove or disprove what happened BYA.

4. There are no left handed DNA strands that exist. When amino acids form through aid, they equally form in left and right handed DNA. The fact that none exist to our knowledge in life is questionable.

5. Lastly, the fact that nothing can be said after all this and more to disprove it to you, shows a lack of scientific nature. Any statistics against evolution are viewed as nice statistics but do not disprove it to you make it questionable.

I would only accept you false argument of not using the bible if you show me left handed DNA in life of some living sort as the experiments say should exist.

john.. that made little sense in respects to evolution... lol
Eating wily prey to gain their stealth and courage used to be necessary and admirable. Cultivate a species for submission, obesity, and stupidity, and their only revenge is to pass on those traits to us mighty hunters.
بهتر بود به فارس هم نوشته شود
'Deep Time' ? Sorry, you're getting too scientific for me there boyo. Any other science you don't believe, or only the parts that disprove your god ?
hee hee hee  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D  yay
+Josh Benda you are controdicting yourself. you say that "ALL life has worth" but previously you implied that if we came form monkeys we would have no worth. are you stating then that monkeys have no worth? personally I would much prefer to be evolved from a monkey than the result of an ignorant superstition arising from no factual basis.
.....and risen David...(Just said the fact..not in here to argue..Good day :-)
Not big on superstition or mythology, any supporting facts? Be happy to
hear them.
what's funny is that some people still celebrate holidays knowing well that they are religious holidays. and who's this guy praying to anyways? ohh wait it's a conference call, i see a mike in his hands. 
Just an ordinary sarcasm against science. Again
Hi! Casey looking good
I agree wth +Joe Arrow +Joe Arrow that the validity of an argument rests entirely with the argument actually made.

However, I think the use of blue heads is inappropriate for aesthetic reasons alone let alone other concerns.

+Kamal Tailor is correct that each user should have a unique image. 
Blasphemy! The Flying Spaghetti Monster created Turkey's with his noodly appendages! More Atheist lies! Ramen brothers, Ramen
+Marc Belley

Now you have actual evidence to believe in God.

Don't believe me ? Just check out the comment above by +stevie lewis that starts "Ill never believe in any thing ..." (sic)

ROFL!! evolutionists may as well do this...people will believe in anything but God!
everyone who questions / ignores the truth the bible teaches aught to read it for them selves...
+Zak Wyns you got it backwards. Everyone should indeed read the bible for themselves and than make their own mind. 
Also, evolution is not a faith. Evolutionists are people who study evolution (specialization of biology) just as mathematicians are people who study and develop the theory of mathematics. It is certainly *not* people who believe in math. 
+Josh Benda really, where's your evidence that the anything in the bible is true?  and what makes your religion's bible any more true than any other religion's.  If the bible was true, there would be only ONE bible, One religion.  The real one.  but instead we have thousands of different Religions....  all of them the real one for their followers ( sheeple )   How do you come to terms with this?  Show me the evidence that it's true and I'll change my mind.  Else it's all just made up stories.
+Muhammed Aadhil but you can see evolution in action,  all around.  Selective breeding is the same thing as evolution (except instead of nature influencing species, it's human selecting wanted traits, and breeding for them, or conversely selecting unwanted traits and breeding against them.  We've created totally new species, by human selection.  (new races of dogs, cats, and plants as example.)
thinking ofJesus Christ is greater than everything
What I love. Is this pattern I have noticed. Most the people on G+ can't look things up for themselves. It's a lack of Intellectual curiosity, lack of integrity.

The pattern is that most people just want to believe what they have been told, or what some magic book of fiction told them. They are lazy. They can't explain why Harry potter is not as valid as their bible, but they think it is, they even think it is a proper History or Proof of history or proof of something. They don't realize they are like my Nephew who knows Hogwarts is is true because King's Cross station in London is a real station, they just need to let him get on the right train and he will be a magician. It's of course not that the Religious never grew up and let go of the fantasy for reality. Oh no.. that would be too obvious. I mean there are so many believers, of every random type of religion, all screaming how theirs is real. Not in any way unlike the kids who fight over who is cooler harry potter or Edward Cullen.

   They don't realize that Herodotus is by far more Accurate and more Historic than the bible and it has Achilles who was invulnerable in all of his body except for his heel. (which I don't think is true, nor Jesus). But I have an ability to discern information read and understand the data and the research.
   If I spend a day, Proving and quoting showing you study after study, research paper after paper. You won't believe it. Your bible will trump all. Most of you are Too Lazy to understand the reality around you, this is why you are Religious. "I'm to lazy to understand or care about how the universe works... lets just bring in the Deus Ex Machina. " When I don't want to figure it out... "God Did it" you are Intellectually lazy. I mean the Greeks understood this "god" crap and they pre-date the Jesus magic.

But of course... somebody should do it for you... Ya, of course you have to be spoon fed like a child. That was how the bible worked for you, and probably if you didn't go to church dad smacked you on the head. I bet if My nephew had kids and hauled them off to "harry potter church" and smacked them every time they didn't believe. They would be similarly convinced, but I bet he gives up the fantasy and takes on reality before that happens. That isn't a testament to the truth of god, it's a testament to his capacity to grow up.

If you want to start with some evidence, which my be accessible  I would start by reading the blind watch maker. 

We have become taller since the civil war. Our pinky toe continues to become smaller and smaller. Viral evolution goes on dang near weekly. 

I could go on for hours.

H. D. Ford and E. B. Ford (4) on phenotypic
variation in a European butterfly
 that is from 1975 it's so old. I could go on and on and on and on and on.

Now if you want to deal with the inductive reasoning. How about some evidence that god did anything ever. Not that "Something was done" and god must have done it. Evidence that God has done anything.

This is at least a beginning to some evidence, There must be something... God parted some water and it was videotaped. Every time pat robertson goes to the toilet he doesn't have to lift the lid maybe? God does that for him or something?

Something besides the oceanic feelings of rainbows and Kittens? 

How about why he didn't answer the prayers Elisabeth Fritzl who was raped and conceived her own pius father's children. 42 years of that woman's life wasted  My God how she must have prayed. Year after year after year. Somehow this is all god's plan.
+Euro Maestro Looks like he deleted his comment? :( Sucks, because I'd have loved to finally see some evidence for god... hell no one I talk to can even provide a definition of what god in this universe actually is... so proof of what it is woulda been great! ;)
+Jorge Roberts You realized that from 4-4:30 am you effectively talked to yourself. Try and not just fill the stream with one comment at a time. You can continue to type and put it all into one comment. 
The idea that you are "Ready to believe". You are being Ingenuousness. Your previous comments show how committed you are to your "Magic". That is actually a Lie that you are "ready to believe" or even listen. But I don't expect anything else out of you. I expect a lower standard of behavior out of religious people. It's very clear in this thread the low moral character of the "Believers". If you think that believers are of higher moral fiber, the Empirical data is before you. They are Rude, insulting and childish 
And in your case Clearly disingenuous. Spending my time and energy with and on you is certainly wasted.
+Marc Belley what +stevie lewis said was that he will never believe that he came from anything but God having made man.  He followed that by saying "Any one that do not believe in Him needs to read the first book of the Bible Then count there ribs Man has one less". (sic)
+Marc Belley After you finish counting your ribs, if that's not enough to convince you, don't forget he works at NASA. 
+Euro Maestro aunt milly never raped or killed anyone, nor asked anyone to rape or kill anyone. Still more convinced?

will it help if I write it in biblical verse and create "the testament of Milly"
But +Eric Davis how is that possible ? +stevie lewis said that man has one less ! Does that mean he was wrong ? Won't he have to now accept that as proof that he was wrong ? 
+Euro Maestro if +stevie lewis wants to know what it is Scientifically it's called Confirmation bias If he counted and got the wrong number. But I bet he didn't because that would be a scientific experiment and he doesn't believe in that.
Evolutionists doesn't believe in God, so to whom do they pray or give thanks. The bid acorn like in Ice-Age...??? Lol
+MIEDER OLIVIER Do you realize that prayer is just a placebo-like drug? It's impacts have been measured with MRI scans and it's basically just a nice psychological technique to feel better. 

So people praying are just talking to themselves, which is important, but it doesn't require a belief in god to do. I talk to myself all the time... and then sometimes to the Internet.
+MIEDER OLIVIER when you don't believe in god you don't pray to anything at all. (because you know that praying doesn't work)  as far as giving thanks,...  that honor can go to the actual framers that breed the turkey, farmers that grew the vegetables, butchers that prepared the turkey,  Grocery store workers for stocking and selling the foods, and to the cook for preparing the food.  God is nowhere in the process and doesn't need to be.
+Fred Boulay Praying does have a measurable placebo affect, similar to meditation. Talking to yourself is actually a great way to feel better and work through issues. Let's not lie and say it doesn't work, because it does... it's just laughable that people think something outthere is listening to one's thoughts.
+Marc Belley ok I concede that praying has a positive effect in the sense that repeating to my self "I can do it" will (most likely) lead me to succeed in a task (or at least to greater chance of success).   Like you said, Placebo Effect.  But in the sense of Praying to God, and God answers my prayers in quantifiable manner.  Show me the study that shows prayer works vs non prayer. 
Oh clearly agreed there. People can't even define this "god" that is supposedly answering as what it would be in this universe. Like OK if you want to live thinking that there might be something in an alternate universe... cool... but I have better places to spend my emotional energy, that are based in this reality.
it kind of annoys me when ppl sit there and say they studied science and know what they are talking about yet get the basic definition of evolution wrong. saying there is no evidence for evolution, or not transitional forms. i mean WTF! 
+James Sledge What is important is to know what you believe. To understand "Science" "Theories" "Scientific Method". The foundation for reality based on rational logic, not empirical illusion. 
Evolution has nothing to do with religion! Its ok to accept evolution as truth and still believe in god. I dont, but stating that others' beliefs are wrong or hypocritical just puts that person in a fundamentalist box.

If you do believe in a god, take solace in it instead of saying people acknowledging science and factual, Earthly evidence are godless. Evolution is proven, religion is a coping mechanism. They arent contradictory, though! They can easily be complementary!

When everybody is wrong, nobody is right.

Chill out a bit and understand that what happens after death doesnt matter when balanced against the life you lead.
+Jimbo Rizza My issue is that for whatever reason, Religion keeps trying to convince everyone into their Delusions and Attack Science and Reality. It's detrimental to everything people work for. It's corrosive to society. Sure, Believe in a Prime Mover or Pantheistic gods whatever floats your boat.

It's regressive to our culture and our progress, counterproductive and down right EVIL, to attack science and Reality. If that is what Religion is for... It is Evil.
+Eric Davis Well said. It's nice to see people that religion is actually harmful to society because it promotes belief in a non-rationality/reality based system. If everyone, instead, was grounded in reality, we would have more opportunities to make this world a better place.
+Marc Belley They can have their Religion, worship snakes Whatever perversions they want. 
What they can't do is be harmful. The worst part is that they prey on the weak. Convince them into being so detached from reality that they then can prey on them. They don't realize the "sheep" metaphor is so appropriate... but they need to realize when they have a Shepard and when they have a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I always thought the sheep metaphor was a Joke, until I saw religions promoting it and reinforcing it... that is scary. 
The problem is that religion is inherently harmful to society's well being because it's based on a lie. Anything that requires lying to people to succeed is not a good thing for society. It might be helpful for some people in the short term, because it does act as an important social tool... but standard organized religions are a cancer on our planet.

You can't have religion without indoctrination of children and those lying shepards... that's not something I can ever support.
You can have decent religions IMO. I think "They" need a new one. Which embraces Science and comes to terms with it.  Merging the more Oceanic or spiritual aspects, with science.
But all this christian shit, and biblical nonsense... this crap is 2000+ years old it's like trying to get to work on a donkey.
Why does any and every mention of evolution guarantee a religious debate? This is absurd. For those of you who believe evolution is false, a lie, or incorrect in any way, I recommend you actually do some research. It has been proven to be a fact. For those of you who believe evolution to be true, but insist on bashing religious people for what you perceive to be stupidity, stop. You're just giving them more reason to distrust the people you are unknowingly representing (evolution proponents).
+David Greene Good... they have been waging war on reason for Thousands of years. Time to fight back. You think it will help to tolerate putting this ridiculous  "Intelligent design" in the classroom. To teach Religion in Science class. I'll stop when they do.
Actually no, they haven't, +Eric Davis. Religion has been one of the leading proponents and supporters of the sciences for thousands of years and only in the past five or so centuries have religious officials begun to oppose scientific progress. Even then, however, it's because they were conditioned and brought up to believe in concepts that they perceived to be contradictory to certain scientific discoveries. The vast majority of people fall back onto their conditioning when in doubt, since that it the strongest influence in their lives. It's not really their fault that they oppose some scientific theories, since they simply do not know better.

Why do you need to "fight back"? What purpose would that serve? All that would do is breed more animosity and intolerance, neither of which will help either side come any closer to reconciliation. Of course I tolerate religion because although I believe it is an outdated system that no longer applies efficiently to modern society, I recognize that not all people view it in the same light. Due to that, I should respect the fact that others may be religious or wish to support religion as a concept. I may not agree, but just so long as they do not significantly interfere in my life, why should I oppose them?

The concept of "Intelligent design" is actually one that is stooped in philosophical and theological thought. It's not a bad idea and only when people impress it upon others is it a problem. Then again, any concept that is pushed on another is wrong once such action is taken. I agree that Intelligent Design should not be taught in mainstream education because it is a theological concept that should be restricted to classes and fields of study pertaining directly to theology and philosophy. The concept itself is not detrimental, however, nor is religion. The problem lies in how it manifests and what people do with it, not in the ideologies themselves.
+David Greene It is tremendously IGNORANT to think that "Intelligent design" should be taught in science class. LIKE YOU SAID it is " is stooped in philosophical and theological thought". It goes in THEOLOGY class Right next to Zeus. Pegasus and Unicorns.

To teach it as "Science" is the single stupidest thing in our modern society, and continues to Perpetuate the Ignorance you are showing. They have even Fooled you into defending it. To turn back the clock on education to allow people to think that Theology is Science. That it is a "Theory" that it Competes with Evolution. IT DOES NOT. You are Very confused, Even you said evolution was fact, NOW you Defend this Magic. It's Cognitive Dissonance. It's part of the Schizophrenia and mental illness that Religion perpetuates in You and in the population.

It is an Evil Vial disease that even you are infected with and don't realize it. It must be Cured. As smart as you are, even you don't realize the insidious hold this nonsense has on you as you Enable this stupidity. And to continue to confuse my kids, who first have to suffer the Brainwashing of saying "Under god", then to go into the most important section our education system and tolerate the discussion ultimate ignorance "once you can't figure it out just turn around and say god did it and go home". Intellectually lazy corrupt ignorant lies Destroying the entire logical structure of what Science is, It's the antithesis. 

Your presentation of that argument continues to Prove to me how perniciously Evil Religion is, you VERIFY my argument. It is sad and tragic the level of disgusting ignorance hoisted on our country by religion, nasty nasty stuff.

I'm not even going to start on your argument about how "once religion sponsored science"... only to turn around and Burn it at the cross. 

Religion is never to step foot in Science class. This is Unreal. the irony of that statement, is certainly not wasted on me. I wonder if it is on you.
Belief moves us forward, religion holds us back.

It's fine to believe in something, anything, but pushing it onto others is where it gets dangerous. Just about every war ever fought has been because of one belief being pushed upon another.

Even this so-called "War On Terror" is nothing but a religious propaganda war. However, as a result, it is causing a waning of religious faith and more and more people are turning back to reality. This gives me hope and a belief that the human race can be left to evolve into the intellectually advanced humans we should already be. 
I'll be sure to read it, +Scott Gomez. Like I said above and below, however: I already oppose religion. I oppose it because I think it no longer serves its purpose, though, and not because I believe it's some horrible, destructive plague on society. Thanks for your recommendation nonetheless.

The problem with your criticisms is that you appear to not be reading what I even said, +Eric Davis. I oppose the concept of Intelligent Design being taught in science class and believe that it should be restricted to the confines of theological and philosophical studies. That being said, perhaps you are the ignorant fool, not I.

Religion and theistic belief have no direct relation to cognitive dissonance nor schizophrenia nor mental illness in general. That is a falsehood idiots propagate because they would rather bash theists and religious people by deeming them mentally ill instead of just accepting the possibility that they may have differing views. People who deny scientific fact in favor of baseless superstition are indeed delusional, but that is an issue with their attitude and mindset, not their religious beliefs. People who are obstinate and stubborn like that tend to be that way because it is in their personality. No matter what religion they follow or belief they hold, they'd be just as hardheaded.

Another problem in your argument is the fact that you believe I'm religious. Not only have I not indicated as such, but if you took a few moments out of your bigoted schedule to actually look at my profile, you'd see it clearly states that I'm an "Independent Philosophical Theist (Agnostic)" and in a number of my posts, I mention I'm against religion. Even in the post you're replying to, I explicitly state that "I believe [religion] is an outdated system that no longer applies efficiently to modern society." That said, you're either not giving enough of a shit to read what I wrote or you're just a dumbass. Whatever the case, you've scored out thrice so far.

Next, you state that religion is a disease. Not only is that absurd and wholly inaccurate, but it also misrepresents what religion is. Religion is a concept that was created by scholars to indoctrinate and organize theistic beliefs. It was later manipulated as a tool and corrupted by the cynicism of religious leaders who used religion as a means of controlling entire populations. It has never been a plague or disease on society, however, and it has actually helped sustain and progress humanity for thousands of years. For you to disregard the important role religion played in human history is not only reprehensibly stupid, but also yet another reason why your opinion should be disregarded as mere bigotry and intolerance.

My argument verifies nothing but the sheer lack of intellectual thought in yours. Not only do you seem to have grossly misinterpreted my statements, but you've also inaccurately presumed that I am religious and support religion in contemporary society. Moreover, your argument is comprised primarily of vitriol and hateful statements bashing myself and the entire concept of religion without justifiable cause. As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is going nowhere, so unless you have a good rebuttal, I see no purpose in furthering it.
+David Greene You are back Peddling. Intelligent Design is presented as a "Scientific Theory". It is "re-branded creationism to be taught as Science". There is no reason to consider it or even talk about it. It is just creationism trying to pass itself off as science. Which you agree it's not.
You said:
_The concept of "Intelligent design" is actually one that is stooped in philosophical and theological thought. It's not a bad idea ... _

You are presenting it like it it is something besides what it is. You seem to think it is just religion. Which it is but it is religion packaged to teach in science class as a "competing theory with evolution. You disagree with this.

If Intelligent design was just "philosophy and theology" how is it different with the other "philosophy and theology". It's not science you say so yourself. They can't teach it in Philosophy and theology... because they already are it's called religion. In your head Intelligent design is just creationism  If it was, they would just call it creationism and teach it in theology. They don't because theology is already taught in theology. They want to teach it in Science. Once you define it as "intelligent design", it becomes something outside of "theology".. if it wasn't it would just be theology or creationisum.
Once you say it... it becomes what it isn't. Intelligent design is creationism in your head, if I'm correct. Keep it that way.

Intelligent design is an evil way to convince people to teach creationism in school. That is it.

 The cognitive dissonance in you is that you don't realize it's "Creationism packaged as Science" to be taught as such. You disagree with it, yet defend it . You even know it's just creationism  but seem to not realize it is "Creationism Presented as Science"  You know creationism is not science and you continue to defend "intelligent design". They have Fooled you. 
This is what Cognitive dissonance is you are holding 2 incompatible thoughts in your head at the same time. That "Intelligent design isn't bad" since you are programmed to accept "religion". Yet the other part of your brain says "but Religion isn't to be taught in science". This is Exactly what intelligent design is. You can't say both things.

This one is mind blowing:

_People who deny scientific fact in favor of baseless superstition are indeed delusional, but that is an issue with their attitude and mindset, not their religious beliefs. _

This is exactly what religion is, Superstition which is baseless. There is no evidence for God. For some reason you don't realize that God is Superstition, Theism is superstition. Somehow you have it in your head that God is not like Unicorns or Fairies or Vampires or Werewolves. I think when you wrote the above, You meant An issue with their Beliefs and not their Mindset. That would make sense, based on your thesis, not that it's true. I would agree that it's an issue with both their attitude and minds set, and their religious beliefs.

You are a Smart guy, yet even you suffer this "God Delusion" and you don't even believe it exists. It's like brainwashing, even you don't seem to know what you are saying.

Again, this is cognitive dissonance. You would say that someone who ran into your house saying Werewolves were after them was crazy. Yet perfectly natural for you to accept someone banging on your door to talk about the bible, a talking snake, an arc and a flood, and deny every natural law in the world.

One of the things experienced therapists know, and can't talk about is that is that Theistic beliefs are delusional. dare they be railroaded out of town by the theists.

This is what Pisses me off about you more than anyone.


This is all it is. "Intelligent design": an Attempt to teach Religion is Science class.
You believe Creationism should be taught in Theology class.

Where should "intelligent design" be taught? Intelligent design is not a "Scientific Theory". It is Creationism and should be taught in Theology.  
+David Greene you don't  even realize what you are saying. I'm hoping you wake up just a little bit more. Intelligent design is a bad thing, a horrible terrible awful thing. You are strongly against it, and you don't even know it, Because you don't believe in teaching Theology in science class. That is what it is! It is Everything you are against, and somehow you don't even know it. This is why it is Evil.
WoW - when I read about evolution as a child, never had I thought there might be so much emotions and politics and opinions associated with it. Coming to think of it, does not our body evolve? Or for that matter our thoughts, knowledge.. Is it too difficult to understand and acknowledge the existence of evolution..? Or is it just the cross species evolution...? While we are fighting on this petty issue I am sure someone is busy expediting the pace of evolution in the labs and factories.
+Lax Mandal my argument is that this is part of what is holding us back, Not having these arguments.
Generations of Lost Minds because we decide to teach "Theology" in the Science classroom. We are already behind most of the developed world. If that isn't evil I don't know what is. All to Let some Morons keep their Magic.
+David Greene
The leading and original group responsible modern day ID, the Discovery institute, wrote a manifesto establishing their goals, methods and reasoning.

From the document:
"Governing Goals

To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.

To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."

By the admission of its own creators, Intelligent Design is a Christian, anti-science agenda. At the end of the day it's all about sneaking Jeebus and Duh Devuhl into the classroom as a first step to turning America into a theocracy.
but +Joe Arrow that wouldn't be Evil and anti a rational scientific america and Relative to what the Taliban does in Afghanistan? I'm going to sit around and defend it and their right to do it, for the sake of being non-partisan and fair (sarcasm) +David Greene 
Yigal my friend you have obviously missunderstood all i have said... i never said that people cant choose their own path (what is the point in being forced to love Yahweh?). What i was saying is people (like some who commented further up) catagorise the bible as a book of fairytales and lies without even having read it themselves. Secondly when i said "people will believe in anything but God" i meant that people come up with all sorts of ideas and anything that pushed God out of the picture! Humans are biologically programed to believe in something... superstisions, gods, anything... Mans problem is that they want to believe in something they dont have to commit to... hence the reason why many dont follow / believe in God! it takes comitment and self sacrifice - giving up the things the flesh loves (trying to anyway) for the things God loves
I will "believe" anything with a solid and convincing set of Facts and evidence behind it, of course that doesn't require belief. 
  I have read the bible cover to cover. I read almost every book in the bible every time someone quotes it, just for kicks. It sits within arms length of my desk. Every time I do, its funnier and funnier and makes me more likely not to believe it, and find it more far-fetched that anyone can. nothing makes a rational person an atheist more than actually reading the bible.
   Harry Potter and Lord of the rings are at least better Morality plays. At least Frodo doesn't have sex with his daughter and Harry isn't told to commit genocide on  the house of Hufflepuff.

Believing in the bible is a commitment and self sacrifice, but personally I have a commitment to my personal relationship with reality.
yes... and soon reality will hit you harder than the bible apparently can.
Why is the Bible going to abuse me? Maybe that is why I believe it's evil. There are even those who suggest it is Sado-masochistic perversion. Hmm maybe your suggestion is more evidence of it.
its a shame you choose to be ignorant... i see that i cant reason with you... i hope you might find the truth, youll be in my prayers. :)
bla bla bla... shake your magic fairy dust and do your incantations. I'm not ignoring anything. I hope you find Truth, and learn how to assess it beyond shaking magic beans and throwing bones down and Placing one hand on the bible and the other somewhere else, to find "Truth".

 I always thought that Incantations and Magic to find Truth in religion was called sorcery. I like data and facts. But again... I don't understand why the bible isn't just another book of fiction and your god isn't just as ridiculous as all the other gods. The infamous line here is "I don't believe in all the same gods you don't believe in, I just don't believe in one more" That single logical construct  is more evidence against god than you will ever have for "Him". 

Then, I could start piling on the other evidence against it, Yet.. I don't have the burden to prove that god doesn't exist you have the burden to prove that he does.

You will be in my "Hopes" that you come to your senses and realize how much you have been lied to. By the way, I don't forgive you for continuing to spread this fiction, I find it repugnant. I will hope for you though.
haha, thanks! you do that :)
We can always disagree +Zak Wyns :) nothing wrong with that, and "pray" for each other in our own sort of way.
meanwhile - the world keeps turning
I'm not back-peddling whatsoever, +Eric Davis. I've remained in the same position as I have been throughout this thread and for several years now.

When has Intelligent Design been presented as a scientific theory? I've yet to hear of that occurring outside of a few isolated incidents by religious fundamentalists. Yes, I did say that Intelligent Design is not a bad idea because it helps explain the existence of the Universe in quite a simplistic manner. That doesn't mean it's necessarily true and I never said that it was, only that Intelligent Design as a concept is something worth considering.

Intelligent Design and religion are not synonymous. While religion sometimes employs the idea of Intelligent Design, the two are independent concepts that can function without the other.

As for the rest of what you said, it's so horridly inaccurate, I'd rather not point out every flaw. You and I have differing opinions and I doubt I'll be able to convince you of anything.
+Joe Arrow, the concept of Intelligent Design has existed for millennia, ever since the birth of theistic belief. Just because some asshats wrote that they wish to use the concept as a means of undermining scientific reasoning, that doesn't mean that is the only manifestation or even an accurate representation of the belief.
Creationism is an ideological postulate that encompasses the explanation of how the Universe came to be via a sentient Creator, +Eric Davis. Intelligent design is a form of creationism and only a facet of the larger postulate. It pertains directly to the idea that an intelligent deity created everything. They are similar, but not exactly the same.
You are high. So if it's part of the larger postulate "creationism". How does, as they say "It's a competing Theory with evolution". is that true?
It isn't a competing theory, +Eric Davis. The people who say that are idiots.

Edit: Well, it's not a scientific theory. It's a competing theory in its most fundamental sense, but I'd hardly consider that competition whatsoever. It's more of an alternative explanation based on outdated religious beliefs than it is a competing theory.
I'm a creationist. The Bible does not support evolution. That's all. There is no ACCOUNTABILITY connected w/evolution, and there must be accountability for our thoughts and actions. Life on Earth can't end with nothing. All the wrong must be punished that has been done, otherwise there is no sense in all in this existance.
Ok. But ,They think it is. +David Greene . They are actively trying to insert it into your science curriculum at your local school.

You have to ask yourself, "If it's just a subset of creationism(or part of the larger postulate), what is the point of it? "

I know you want to define it different than they do, but you have to accept how they are presenting it to your local school board. You have to accept how they define it. It's not, what they say it is. They are idiots, but so is the dude on your school board.

Now, it's not a theory, In any way.  It's sort of a loose idea. They think Theory can be defined that way. Yet they don't know what a "Scientific theory" is. The idea it can compete, when it's not even close to scientific.

Just imagine what it will be like if your kid goes to science class and has to hear "There are many Scientific theories on life, one is evolution the other is Intelligent design."
Then the poor science teacher, after explaining to the 7th grade how the scientific method works, how somehow god took his finger and started life in the primordial pool and that is a theory. How confused your kid will be on what science is, what the scientific method is. Because it's not being applied to Science. All because the school board thinks that "ID is a competing theory on how life was formed on this plant"

So, yes they are stupid, but they are winning this debate. We could lose generations of Scientists over this, because they never get how the scientific method works.

Then tell me that you aren't offended by this?

Honestly, you know that all this "Intelligent design" thing is is an attempt to put creationism in the science classroom? Its an end-run around the establishment clause in the constitution, That is all this is and it's wrong.

It may be heresy from my perspective to say but I don't see any reason to not Talk about theology in school. I don't want them to teach A theology. I have no problem, and even see it as a mistake to not discuss theology. I think it should be taught in general. a broad discussion of the various theologies and how they have evolved and changed. I don't want anyone teaching people to Be a particular theology but I think it is important to discuss. I doubt they would agree with what I think they should teach... but again, I don't have a problem with talking about Theology. It's a real concept. It should be discussed. 

but not in science class.
Evolution is a very obvious failed attempt at proving our existence. Why people still believe it, I don't know.
how is this weird. you were talking about not having creation in science, but only evolution. That is plain stupid. If you want to have evolution taught in the classroom, you also must have creation taught. People must be allowed to see both sides of the argument and decide for themselves. You can't force one's opinion on millions of kids. They must decide for themselves, not you for them.
The bible also says that the Earth is flat and Jerusalem is the center of the Universe, +Dan Barlow. Only a complete fool would favor the religious texts from ancient, long-dead theologians who had no proof whatsoever for their postulates over the proven claims of scientists and anthropologists.

I am aware that some Christian organizations are attempting to impose Creationist propaganda into science class (and have tried to do so in the past), +Eric Davis. I find that to be appalling and I strongly oppose such ventures. I remember having a senior high school physics teacher who would insert her own personal beliefs whenever we discussed a topic that contradicted her own religion (Fundamentalist Christianity). She even said that the Big Bang is "just a theory" and that there isn't a whole lot of evidence for it. Trust me, I understand just how frustrating it can be to hear a fool teach the ignorant.

I understand that the Discovery Institute has propagated a very distorted and corrupt interpretation of Intelligent design and they are attempting to replace evolutionary science in school with it. Just because they are doing that, however, Intelligent design is not to blame. They are misrepresenting the concept, nothing more. There is a difference between interpretations of a concept, you know?

Of course I'm offended by this blatant abuse of education and disregard for science. That should be obvious, especially since I haven't said otherwise. Intelligent design is a concept that has been around ever since the 13th Century with Thomas Aquinas, though, and perhaps even earlier. Just because the Discovery Institute ruined the popular perception of what it is, that doesn't mean Intelligent design was postulated in order to replace any scientific theory. Back then, there wasn't a contending scientific theory.

I wholeheartedly agree that theology has no place in science class, though.

+Joseph Epp, evolution has been proven as a scientific fact and scientists have even seen it occur in real-time. Learn something for once.
Do you see this +David Greene they want it taught in science?
+Joseph Epp you can only teach science in science class. As soon as there is any Science in Creationism, it will be taught. They are not two sides of an argument. Now you can continue to make your regressive argument that "god did it" to the ends of the universe or with every unproven thing in science. But you have a Class for that, It's called Theology. 
Yes I do see that, but I think people exaggerate the prevalence of the issue. Intelligent design is being taught in virtually no public schools in the United States or Europe, so I doubt it'll be much of an issue, especially after it dies out after people realize it's fallacious., +Eric Davis.
But someone has to point it out 
It's about time we can have a discussion about this.

I am of the strong belief that Theology should not be taught in school. The problem with teaching our children about religion in school is that all people have their own opinions and could not possibly give ALL religions an equal footing. That is not fair on the children and not fair for choice. I'm betting that, in America, teachers of Theology are mostly Christian, as almost 50% of Americans are. How could that possibly give our children the knowledge and understanding to make the right choice for themselves. +Eric Davis is completely correct, how can people believe so blindly in The Bible but not The Lord of the Rings? Over 2000 years of brainwashing, that's how. I too have read The Bible cover to cover on numerous occasions as I was reared by a Christian family, I've even been baptised! But as soon as I was ALLOWED to think for myself, the church did all it could to try to disprove what I had learned for myself, they even held an intervention! Just goes to show that even the church itself is afraid of the truth. It's not like science is trying to disprove the existence of God on purpose, it's just a by-product of the facts. Sorry, religion, but I think your reign of ignorance is coming to an abrupt end. Thanks for the history but we don't need you any more, we can forge a bright and free future for ourselves from here, now bugger off then. 
+Eric Davis, don't you realize what I am saying. I am saying that there is so much stuff out there that you can read if you want to online that talks about creation in science. From what I have found, there is an enormous amount of evidence out there that points to this universe being created, not evolving. Now, there are two sides, and I understand this. So what I am simply proposing is this: why not, because creation has just as much science in it as evolution does, show kids the two sides of the argument in science. They can therefore chose if they wish to believe evolution occurred or creation occurred. They will be represented fairly how things were created according to creation, or how things evolved according to evolution. It should be the children's choice as to what they believe, NOT mine or yours. If they think creation is more sensible, then they can chose that. If they think evolution is more sensible, then they can chose that. There is no absolute proof that either occurred. No one was here when the world and universe were created or evolved, so no one can say for sure what happened. Therefore, the children can chose what they think is best. All you want is to indoctrinate the kids with one idea and not fairly representing all ideas for them to chose from. Do you understand what I am saying?
There is literally no evidence whatsoever to support the idea of the Universe being Created, especially since there is none for a Creator, +Joseph Epp.

Edit: This is coming from a theist, by the way.
There is also literally no evidence whatsoever to support the idea of the Universe evolving, by the way.
Yes there is. There's overwhelming evidence, +Joseph Epp. You can literally Google it. Look up background radiation, the Big Bang, the Doppler effect, how planets are formed, red shift, black holes, the formation of galaxies, the formation of stars, etc. You'd be a fool to not realize that.
I've learned all of that stuff and its all been disproved, in case you are not up to date. You can google all the evidence for creation as well and find more for it than evolution. I am surprised you actually could believe such an out to date disproved idea as evolution.
No, none of it has. How about you provide some sources for your absurd claims, then, +Joseph Epp? If you studied any of them you'd know that they are not disproved whatsoever.
And by the way, +David Greene , how is the Big Bang evidence. It is simply a guess by scientists at what could have happened. It is NOT evidence. It cannot be proved.
It's not just a guess. It's a proven theory, +Joseph Epp. Oh and here's something to think about: Georges Lemaître, one of the first people to propose the Big Bang theory, was also a devout Catholic Priest.

Shut up.
+joseph epp for a long time we thought light objects dropped slower than heavy ones. Somebody then figured out how to test this. We found out that it's not true. You could test it, prove it and repeat the test. Suddenly with some work we had "The theory of gravity"

This is what science is. That is all. It's unfortunate that nothing about god has yet to be found to be testable. Wouldn't that ruin the Purity and the Beauty of your "Faith". Wouldn't you want to keep it pure.

going into a Science classroom and saying "We don't have any evidence for Astrology, Any attempt to test it has been shown not to confirm it, but we are going to test it anyways"

If we taught as Science these things, we would spend Hours and hours teaching kinds all sorts of Unproven things. The entire class would be filled with various Sorcery and UFO's and other crazy stuff. That stuff is not for the Science classroom. Only Science is.

+Richard McPherson I think there is room to teach "About Theology" there just isn't any room to teach "A Theology" in public education. Of course the Religions wouldn't want that, people may become Buddhists or something. 
Wow +David Greene . You seem to be queasy about my comments. Maybe you do realize what I say has something to it. So, the Big Bang theory is simply a stupid solution for evolution. All it does is show that the universe had a beginning which came about suddenly. There is absolutely no evidence it happened. It is just a theory, and that means there is no proof and it is just an idea. I don't care if a Catholic priest made it up. That doesn't mean anything. The Roman catholic church is very widespread and there are many liberals with different ideas. And +Eric Davis , I have one question? Is evolution in any way testable? No, it isn't. Its all theory about chance which is absolutely just as ridiculous as you say creationism is. There is more chance that an intelligent designer made things than that the most random chance made things. Evolution is Not Science. It is simply human's try at guessing how things came about. It is a failed attempt. It can not never will prove anything. So therefore we must teach the two theories in the classroom. I am not saying that we should be stupid and spend hours doing this. But we should outline the basics of each theory for the kids to decide.
No, it's because I think you're literally retarded if you believe what posted, +Joseph Epp. The rest of what you said is absolutely false. Either get an actual education or get sterilized and never be around children.
You gave no reason for what you just said +David Greene . All you said is I am retarded and nothing to prove your "evolutionary" point. You know exactly what I am talking about, but refuse to acknowledge it. Evolution is Not proved. Can't you get that idea in your head. Show me one instance where it is proved? It is simply a theory, and a dumb one at that.
I've given you ample reason and I don't have the time, nor the patience to point out every falsehood and incorrect claim you made. If you want proof as to why you're wrong, you can literally look it up in any scientific text book from the past 50 years. You can Google it, too. There are millions of articles on those topics, the vast majority of which says you're wrong. I don't need to reiterate points that have already been made, +Joseph Epp. It's not like you'll listen or consider my evidence, anyway.
Yes +Joseph Epp it is, has been and can be repeatedly tested. In previous posts I even started providing the research. Most of the "counter arguments" are just Arguments from ignorance. They say "well we don't know how this happened, so it must not be true." lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary. (but I have no doubt that phrase and level of thinking is beyond you)

+David Greene How uncivilized... I mean... this lack of knowledge couldn't possibly be effective in  convincing local school boards?
+Eric Davis you actually said nothing. You did mention the big bang etc., but said nothing to prove it. It is a theory. Do you even know what a theory is?
Yes I do. And apparently you don't because a theory means it has not been proved but it is a supposition as to what has happened. The Big Bang has not been proved, no one was there to know it happened and therefore as much as you would like it to be proved, it has not been.
What you don't know +Joseph Epp is that words have context. the context of theory is "Scientific" so those places where theory is a 'loose idea' is not a proper definition for Theory. You slept through the 5th grade when they taught you how to look up a word.
And so how has the big bang been "repeatedly observed and experimented on"?
Don't make a fool of yourself. You know what I mean. There is no evidence. Yes people will go on about how evolution has occured thru this or that, but I have so many time studied evolution and all its theories that it becomes more and more a very obvious failure to me. The Big Bang has not been proven. People may say radiation and this or that in the universe prove the big bang, but creationists each time show it to be just as possible it didn't happen. Therefore your point cannot be proven.
"You know what I mean."

Actually no, I don't, +Joseph Epp. You sound like a delusional fool because all you assert are baseless criticisms and no evidence to back it up. I believe in God, but I'm not so stupid as to reject proven facts.
Yes +Joseph Epp the experiments of "red shift" have been done and repeated and confirmed. The experiments establishing a center of the universe are confirmed. 
Etc etc etc etc...
None of this should stop you from believing in God and having Faith. That is not a problem. You can say to the infinite regression of "god started the universe" or "god set up the big bang" or god started the various dimensions that show Numerous universes. You can still have Faith in god. 

I would suggest you just allow the science to be taught. Because that is the chapter you missed in school. "What Science is" which is why you don't get it, and don't realize that YOU CAN STILL BELIEVE IN GOD! and whatever other magical unicorns and fairies suit your purpose.
I'm glad to here you hate me, +Eric Davis . And for you +David Greene , you can find millions of what you call "Credible sources" if you want to google them. It is just as easy to find sources for creation as it is for evolution.
by the way that link is valid. it must just not have responded properly
And how am I making lives worse? I think you are making people's lives worse.
no... tried if a few times. it has no data, you have none, never did. You are just some 12 year old trolling.
Find them yourself. While there are many credible, proven, and scientifically accurate sources all over the Internet and throughout textbooks supporting ideas contrary to yours, there is not a single shred of credible evidence for your argument, +Joseph Epp. Go get an education and stop looking like a fool.
+David Greene he is trying to pull your leg. He couldn't be dumb enough to post that as evidence.. and all I get is 404 errors. It's a real live Troll
+David Greene , you do not know what type of an education I have gotten, but it is much better than yours. I have heard your type lots, and know much more than you think I do. 
If it isn't ... he needs to do a better job of providing anything but nonsense. It's actually a malicious attempt by some Child to push buttons. It's probably a form of sadism. 
That's called arrogance, +Joseph Epp. The Bible says you can go to Hell for that. With that being said, you're obviously too stubborn to listen, so I'll just ignore you. Enjoy your delusional world.
he googled it and linked it.. whatever it was... all I get are 404 errors. 
He doesn't mean any of it +David Greene now he has calmed down... because "the jig is up"
Ok, you can google it if you want to all you have to do is type in "why the big bang theory is wrong" and there you go. Imagine that, google will actually find reasons for you. 
he linked all his buddies from G+ like it was his little joke. that is why he was making such poor arguments and just being contradictory. +David Greene Unlike the guy who talked about counting ribs
my arguments were better than yours, I am pretty sure. And i did not link all my buddies either, weirdo.
I'm rubber you are glue... does that help?
I don't engage crazy. I think in the assessed weight of our arguments. I think that was the most effective against your troll. I believe I win.
you didn't say "This is the debate on G+ I'm having especially with +David Greene and +Eric Davis . see what you can say." and share it with your buddy.

you are going to add lying... ok... and you are older than 12? 9?
Hey guys,
How about we start by dropping the ad hominem attacks and go from there?

Now, what are we trying to prove here with the "Big Bang"? Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing we know about the "Big Bang" for sure is that it marked the beginning of our universe.(Speaking of the initial incident of course) Really, I don't think our scientific abilities, seeing how reliant they are on human perspective and materialism, could discover much beyond that.

From my understanding of ID, this is completely compatible. Most IDers would claim that the universe had a definite beginning, whether started by Jehovah, Allah, Aliens, etc. I guess what I’m getting at is, what is it about the big bang that makes it such a strong supporter of naturalistic evolution?
"Evolution" is the biggest farce since "Islam"
Ok, are we interested in debating or insulting each other?
we were never arguing about islam, but if you are asking me, I do not think it is right, but it definitely is a real religion out there.
What happened to your buddy +Joseph Epp You two were going to argue "big bang". Did he not join your troll?
The big bang makes sense, as that is how you could describe the result of God forming the earth and universe from a void.  When I get up each day, and look at myself in the mirror, I still am amazed that I am individual capable of thinking, understanding, and even being able to consider what 'believing' actually means...I realize there is no way I "evolved" from any of the other creatures around me, and thus was created by intelligence way beyond what I could ever understand, intelligence so all knowing that it could indeed create the universe as well!  Maybe evolution does exist, but it's not where I came from.  And to top it off, I even know how a mirror works!
your grandfather was a chimp Ron Sebring
well +Eric Davis , first of all, we never were going to argue with each other about the big bang. Second of all, he was going to argue with you about the big bang and evolution. third of all, I am not trolling. I hope you find these answers satisfy your questions. By the way did you check out this link: ?
Gee whiz Adam Lettre, how did yo ever figure me out? Was it my short arms,
or my pushed in nose, my hairy legs? Or perhaps your fear of
It makes you a moron to think that an engineering degree makes you even vaguely qualified to discuss science. All those laws that keep buildings up, developed by science. I'm sorry, you are not a moron in that respect... just ignorant. 

You are a moron because you think truth lies it thrift.... well and that you can't grasp Science. Page after page of evidence... that you must be too lazy to read... since "truth lays in thrift.
Let me also point out that believing in religion ... well it's tantamount to believing in magic... Hocus Pocus...
It's also mind blowing that you want to come back to an argument from over a month ago. 
Many cultures have a word for you... it's called a Luddite. Unable to grasp the future.
I guess I should speak in small words to match the intellect of the grand wizards of wisdom; religious people who believe in Magic books with conflicting messages.
Wow, you guys are still on this post, pretty crazy.
I think your statement about "Thrift" and your other various statements calling me long-winded.  And coming to an argument a month and a half after it was being had. Prove what a dope you are.
For simplicity and Thrift.
Did your degree come with a plastic Whistle? 

and of course I have to argue "Punctuated equilibrium" but am limited to 2 syllable words. 

Thanks for Defining the debate... 
This argument was OVER A MONTH AGO. Maybe that Science/Engineering ... Captain crunch degree... Could get you a Watch and teach you to tell time.

How if I start with those fundamentals. The big hand on a watch tells the hour. The small hand shows the Minutes. There are Two twelve hour periods in a day.

Tomorrow I will discuss Days and months.

After that I will go on to discuss other fundamentals. I suspect Tying your Shoes. 
Some time next week we will hit the first grade lesson plans.

There will be quizzes.. just to make sure you are understanding it. I'm not sure that was required in your degree process. 
I know... I have to start with teaching you to tie your shoes. Then Days of the week... we will get there... Counting comes next month.

Of course like a lazy person, I have to do all the work for you. This is why you are an idiot, and why you don't understand things. Intellectual Laziness. Are you too tired to understand things or look them up? Lets just Make up a Magical unicorn in the sky who waves his wand and makes things happen. Much easier than looking them up... and a Bonus, you can fall asleep in church on sunday too. It also has the benefit of Patriarchy and misogyny... I'm sure they are right up your alley. 

 Transitional species.. that double downs on your Being a moron. You are going to make the Cat Dog = Dat argument? 

There is actually a form of sociopathy here too. You call me a "person who says a lot but says nothing"... 
Your argument... is nothing. You didn't present an argument, just wanted me to Explain..." In few words" Lest I be a WINDBAG a scientific theory. I suspect you can google it. If you want specific arguments BRING THEM UP.

I have no doubt though that your ability to define words will be challenged too. Which goes back for my need to make this a remedial lesson.

CAT DOG= DAT Transitional species.... Fucking moron.

Languages evolve without transitional forms. French and Spanish come from latin... BUT YOU DON'T NEED FRANISH... Stupid.

I quote you Eric Davis, you are longwinded and pompous. Many cultures have words to discribe you


BTW these are all strong indicators of a Sociopath. Because this is shit you do. Now Certainly once the name calling started I get to liberally use Stupid and Moron. 

I want to point out that you also said something on par with a 7 year old about my aunt milly. Besides how stupid it made you look, Were you particularly offended that there is as much evidence for my aunt milly being the creator of the universe than for god.... Oh ... Wait... My Aunt Milly Actually exists... and I can prove it. She could even call you.... Get your god to do anything close to that.

ON A POST FROM A MONTH AGO!!!!! It's like You just Got a Computer... Did you get it for Christmas? Oh!!! After unwrapping you better Try and make arguments from 6 weeks ago.... hey... there is some great stuff on the Election... Go back a few more weeks. You can tell us how brilliant Mitt Romney is and how he is going to win the election. Maybe something more topical like the Mayan Prophecy.  You can only be a few weeks behind.

There you go... in one sentence :
Languages change without transitional forms. French and Spanish come from latin... but it doesn't require franish. 

The entire argument is Fallacious... 

I'm sure to you those languages don't exist... since there was not transitional form..... HOLY STUPID... The only reasonable argument against Natural Selection is that YOU HAVEN'T Been wiped from this earth yet.
The extra charming part of your Hypocracy/ cognative dissonance is that you try and make an argument from authority. That somehow your "Engineering" degree makes you a Scientist. Yet, at work or home they would find you mad if you made the same claim. 

You claim this "Authority" based on your degree...
Yet, You refuse to respect the Authority of the Scientists ... the actual PHD's in the Actual Science. That have shown by experiment that Evolution is a Fact. Suggesting that somehow the hand full of plastic surgeons and "engineers" pretending to be 'Scientists". That show massive ignorance by trying to argue poorly that it isn't. Based on Ridiculous arguments like "Transitional forms", which just shows how ignorant they are.
If you have other proof "Professor Engineer", I would suggest you submit it for scientific review and collect your Nobel Prize.

Why you think I have to take up and spend hours describing a scientific theory, you are again quite mad. Mind blowing to think that I need to do what you keep requesting. Present your clear case against Evolution, since it is Science Fact. Certainly you are better presenting that to scientific review... since you are an "Engineering Scientists"... Rather than trying to argue magic on a Google Plus post. 

You know that those arguments are laughable, which is why you can't nor will you make them in a proper Published scientific publication... Like a real Scientist would.

This is a joke beyond jokes. Obviously the rest of your various arguments rely on magic books and fairy dust.

The arguments have been argued and posted and hashed and rehashed. Your argument about "Transitional forms" was and is Silly at best. I clearly refuted it. 

Your Rhetorical boat has sunk.... the only thing left is your denial. Very similar to your continued Grasp on your fantasies about God which are just Childhood fairy tales ... you have yet to grow out of.
Some folks confuse the ability of biological species to change over time, as proof that evolution exists.
Like most cases of "cognitive dissonance". You don't realize that just because you deny it, doesn't make it true. You absolutely have insisted that you have some authority and were quite patronizing. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. Denying you said something which you did... Is called Denial. That is so self evident, don't degrade us both by making me actual quote your text. It would only drag you down further into the Murky depths of your...... pathetic arguments.

Sir, You are an embarrassment to humanity, no wonder you seek Magic to fix your deficiencies. As opposed to doing the hard work of being a good person.

I think I can let my case against you stand. I think any thinking person can realize how broken your thought processes are.  layer after layer of your Jumbled thinking... that is what makes you "Believe" in this magic. 

I'll add that there is again NO REASON for me to try and make the arguments that you request. It's almost an obsessive sense of control that you keep after this. I have no desire to box my own shadow, and would be stupid to do so. 

As such a genius ... since you know evolution is not a fact. Go to Nobel and collect your prize. The best and only argument... is this "Cat" + "Dog" = Dat argument.... which is so pathetic you are even too embarrassed to defend it.

You lost this argument many days ago. I still suspect you were hoping you could get a last word in on a thread from ages ago. If you want to argue your case against evolution. I'd suggest you try on a fresher thread. I'd also suggest you bring something better than the ignorant bullshit of "Transitional Species" that just proves how broken your thought process is. 
 You haven't provided one decent argument and have lost like ten. I can argue your silly attempts at arguments till I'm blue in the face. I can and have provided page after page of information.

Challenges... I've stomped every one of them

 Imbecile and stupid.... I'm sorry if the names fit you earned them... and Like I said you started it... sorry if you don't like the game you started.... Grow up.

Like I said "Just because you say it" doesn't make it true. I can easily let my arguments against your Lack of arguments stand against you. The problem is again, after your stupid "Cat" "Dat" argument, Just making that one proves your inability to think. You should hang out with the guy who said the rib count in men was different that woman. 

The idea that you can sit here like a baby and Pout,"Write me an Essay on "Punctuated Equilibrium" over and over....  It goes more to my argument about your intellectual and actual laziness

Jumping up and down and crying not an argument, its the childish rant of an Imbecile. It would be stupid for me to continue to argue against No argument.... it's only your "cognitive dissonance" that makes you even think that you have done anything but prove my point; that thinking that "Evolution" is not fact... is more a Breakdown in thought process than it is an argument or even a coherent belief. 

It also seems as slow as you type You aren't even worthy of any form of debate. Like I said.... you are embarrassing, and and seem to have one of the weakest abilites at rhetoric I have seen....

I'm waiting for you to Re-post "Write me a story daddy about Punctuated equilibrium" again..... because 5 times of it not working is not enough..... Embarrass yourself again.
P.S..... this is only a complex debate in the mind of someone so severely confused as yourself. Yes.... It's obviously beyond your intellect.... Mostly because you believe in a Magic Wizard in the sky who waves his magic wand.... You can believe in that with no evidence.... but things with evidence obviously perplex you. LOL That must suck... 

Every time you burn yourself on hot things does it perplex you why? Why god hates you so much to allow it to happen to you. As opposed to Touching things that are hot burn the skin. Did you want a 4 page essay on how the skin burn mechanism works?

See, Now I'm getting mean.
Going back to your hypocritical arguments;

 Your argument of authority. Yet refusing to grant the authority of all the PHDs In science and biology again. Which of course... you deny doing two comments ago. How can anyone be this Fucking stupid. Right... You denied that very thing, that you hadn't tried to make that argument.

Oh... backing up your attacks about my name calling with ... Name calling? Nice.
Schizophrenic much?

Oh... And now a Threat. The act of a bully. Certainly the arguments of an adult and pathetic to threaten me over the internet.... You are some piece of work.

I nailed it, Sociopath. The threat is the final Nail in your Psychotic Coffin. Beat a woman recently, you perv? She isn't a Whore... You are a Pervert btw.

Trust me, I'd kick your ass..... Again. You ignorant xenophobe. How if you get out of whatever armpit of 10,000 year earth, mouth breathing Hole in our Social cultural fabric that you fell into 70 years ago. I'm sure you are only 60, but still your ideas are still 20 years behind when you fell off that turnip truck. Hell I'm surprised you have a computer, aren't they "of the devil" or are your slow responses to these messages because you are going to the library to use the computers there. Try section 570 Life sciences. 

You are certainly the biggest moron I have ever had a chance to discuss this with. Ok... you are in the running with the guy who was arguing the rib thing.

You want an argument at your level? You pathetic child. "I'm in your mother's basement, She puts the red light out when I show up"... If that reference isn't to obscure for your stupid ass.

All mouth... WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? The charming thing is you aren't Muscle, mouth, intellect, rational... Just some kind of weird buffoon convincing yourself  you are even saying anything. I feel like i'm in an elementary school with you.... in the 1950's. your best being "I aint seen no Crockaduck.... so there aint no evolution". I'm terrified to ask if you buy into Jesus riding dinosaurs, or if you are one of the Anti-dinosaur people. I'd ask but... Either would only go to cement how stupid you are. 

Show up, seriously... I'm in your mother's basement... and by mother I mean the woman you sit around and call "Mommy" when you have sex.... 
Threaten someone over the internet... WTF is wrong with you? Oh... Ya, you are mentally ill. Oh.. goes along with your delusional thinking about the guy in the sky with the magic wand. How silly of me to have doubted it.

Harry potter and Sauron Lord of darkness have much better powers, and a much more lucid moral. (still not real though)
The best part is the gloves are off now.

Funny that you thought this was important in the first place, enough to be a rotten person and threatening me. I'd offer sympathy but you haven't earned it. Sorry to be cold but you are an asshole.

I would suggest you read any book on evolution. Not some garbage written by some broken minded apologist who has faith in god but no grasp on science. I'm sure that argument is some kind of ridiculous straw man, the one you were baiting me into.

You are a sociopath, get help.
Eric, I keep seeing you go on about "evil", as though you believe it exists as an entity.  In my mind, it has been the contrast of "good".  Good and Evil are moralistic terms, not really based in science. I believe in science as method to understand (and control) the physical environment we live in. I have yet to see any science that proves evolution.  Please give me just one credible instance of this science you keep raving about.  And please spare me the rants about where it belongs in the education system.
It's listed in previous discussions. I gave 4 or more and could give 30 or more scientific studies. If you can't be bothered to find them, It's not up to me to spoon feed them to you, again.

I can at this point end this discussion based on that Single issue alone. Honestly if you are not that interested in following the discussion. I would suggest you don't comment on it. I hope you understand that. It's fairly simple, if you can't be bothered to read the discussion, why would I bother to have it with you. What makes you worthy of the discussion, when you won't take the time to read it. Furthermore that would extend to the various Issues related to the discussion, If you aren't willing to "read" the material, you probably aren't willing to think about it?

It's the discouraging thing about threads like these. 3 weeks of discussion and people come late to the party and want it all re-discussed. Like a student coming late to class and wanting everyone to start again.

That goes to one of my personal basic premises about people who argue against evolution, they are intellectually lazy. They want everything fed to them like babies and have no intellectual curiosity. "Math and science hard.... I'll just say God did it, that is easier"

Maybe you know that the evidence for evolution is there, you just want me to look it up for you. I'm just saying I've done it, I posted it, but you can certainly google it.

Your strange statement about "good evil" and teaching in class science. It's difficult to follow, do a please better job if you want me to address it. I can't imagine I was making a Scientific argument about evil. I can imagine I made one on moral grounds. I mean, god told Abraham kill his son, Then told him it was a joke. Sounds like an evil sadistic psychopath to me.

Seems clear; teach science in science class,The bible in bible class on sunday. It's not hard. But of course people who believe in 10K year earth don't understand what science is and when asked what should be taught start talking about Crocaducks. Seems like a very valid reason to teach more science in science class. 

Thanks for your active participation in a 2 month old thread. 
This is how folks like you twist information around.  God didn't tell Abraham is was a "joke".  It was a test. I asked you for only one specific example and you failed to provide it.  Instead, you have gone onto another one of your rants about classroom etiquette.  It appears you are the one talking about Crocaducks.  Furthermore, I am not so sure that creation by intellectual design is not science.  You would like to disguise it into a religious approach so that you can get it barred from your pathetic "classroom".  You seem to have the lazy approach of "Gee, since creatures can evolve, that MUST be where WE came from!"  I have been following the thread for some time, its' most difficult area is trying to dis-cypher your ping pong ramblings.  As for you not understanding the "evil" part of the conversation, you can't have it both ways...morality comes from God, not man....thus don't label something evil if you don't believe in God.  I've grown weary of this thread and your insistence on trying to monopolize it with your outdated evolution theories.  I suggest you get a haircut, shave off the beard, get a real job, and join the real human race.
"Gee, since creatures can evolve, that MUST be where WE came from!"
so, there is evolution.... point made. Glad you agree.

So, if you thought god told you to rape and murder your sister you would do it? 

I wouldn't, I don't believe in god. Morality does not come from god. It comes from within us. Greeks and romans had morality and they had different gods. Fake pretend gods. like zeus.

 In fact I find it offensive that this "God" tries to take credit for the good things I do. I have been a very good and decent person my entire life. Never hit a child. Never raped anyone. Helped my neighbors, Donated money, Many people have told me that I am the most decent person anyone anyone has ever met. For this "god" to take credit for the good things I do is offencive. In fact it's like a con artist trying to rip me off. I spend the winter and the holidays doing kind acts for friends and neighbors, many of them say "oh, what a good christian". I do it because it makes me feel good. But I'm offended this God somehow rips me off of these good acts and tries to take credit for them.

Now I can also start making lists of things done in the name of god that are certainly evil. Genocides, Crusades   murders.... I mean, have you heard of 9/11, murder of 3,000 in the name of god? Certainly you will argue... well that is not the same god.... but muslims believe in the same book of abraham you do. the same god is in both books. How about roman catholic priests molesting kids, Jonestown they were christian, Warren Jeffs who was a child molester and did it in the name of god. Rwanda, where roman catholic priests urged the Hutu on. Not a single Nazi was excommunicated by the church for the genocide of the jews, They also seized tons of Mussolini's gold and sided with the Axis powers.. Father Charles Edward Coughlin sat on the radio trying to convince americans to stay out of WW2, to Let the germans purify the jews. Where was this "Morality that only god can give you then" That genocide was certainly motivated in the name of this 'god' you speak of  I can go on and on. god gives us morality that is a joke. I'm sure you will say, but that is not my god... those are bad gods. They all follow the same teachings the same books.  If this is morality, i'm terrified of you people. If that is the case, God should be banned and shunned from every aspect of everyone's life.

"I suggest you get a haircut, shave off the beard, get a real job, and join the real human race."

I'm quite the clean cut fully employed person. Thank you for this attack on my character ... How moral of you, your belief in god and Jesus is doing well for your Morality and the Goodness in your heart. No worries.... Jesus will forgive you for being an asshole... wait, I thought religion made you a better person, not made excuses for you when you are doing evil. Maybe we have the argument there, commit Genocide, rape, incest... god will forgive. That isn't evil at all(sarcasm).  
Examples of evolution:

I know you won't follow it.

Aloha - spider style!
This research profile follows Dr. Rosemary Gillespie to Hawaii as she evaluates hypotheses about the evolution of the colorful happy-face spider.
Angling for evolutionary answers: The work of David O. Conover
Human activity has certainly affected our physical environment - but it is also changing the course of evolution. This research profile follows scientist David O. Conover as he investigates the impact of our fishing practices on fish evolution and discovers what happened to the big ones that got away.

Biological warfare and the coevolutionary arms race  
The rough-skinned newt looks harmless enought but is, in fact, packed full of one of the most potent neurotoxins known to man. Find out how an evolutionary arms race has pushed these mild-mannered critters to the extremes of toxicity and how evolutionary biologists have unraveled their fascinating story.

Comic strip: Survival of the sneakiest  
This comic follows the efforts of a male cricket as he tries to attract a mate, and in the process, debunks common myths about what it means to be evolutionarily "fit."

Fire ants invade and evolve  
Understanding the evolution of fire ants may help scientists control the spread of these pests, which have already taken over much of the U.S.!

Interactive investigation: The arthropod story  
This interactive investigation delves into the amazing world of the arthropods and examines their success and their evolutionary constraints.

It takes teamwork: How endosymbiosis changed life on Earth  
You might be surprised to learn that descendents of an ancient bacterium are living in every cell of your body! Find out how endosymbiosis factored into the evolution of your own cells.

Mantis shrimp shoulder their evolutionary baggage and bluff
Like all organisms, mantis shrimp carry baggage from their evolutionary history. Find out how this baggage has coaxed them into a deadly bluffing game.

Origin of modern humans: Multiregional or out of Africa?  
Learn more about your own history from paleoanthropologist Donald Johanson. He describes how and when early humans evolved, Homo sapiens’ ancestors and relatives, and the diverse lines of evidence relating to this history.
This article appears at

Webcast: Selection in action  
In lecture two of a four part series, evolutionary biologist David Kingsley discusses how just a few small genetic changes can have a big effect on morphology, using examples from maize, dog breeding, and stickleback fish.
This lecture is available from Howard Hughes' BioInteractive website.

Adaptation: The case of penguins
The process of natural selection produces stunning adaptations. Learn about the history of this concept, while you explore the incredible adaptations that penguins have evolved, allowing them to survive and reproduce in a climate that reaches -60°C! 
This article appears at Visionlearning.

Evo in the news: Evolution down under
This news brief, from September of 2008, describes an unusual contagious cancer currently decimating Tasmanian devil populations. Learn about the fascinating interplay between the evolution of the devils and the evolution of the disease.

Evo in the news: Got lactase?  
The ability to digest milk is a recent evolutionary innovation that has spread through some human populations. This news brief from April 2007 describes how evolution has allowed different human populations to take advantage of the nutritional possibilities of dairying.

Evo in the news: Musseling in on evolution
This news brief, from September 2006, reviews a recent case of evolution in action. In just 15 years, mussels have evolved in response to an invasive crab species. Find out how biologists uncovered this example of evolution on double time.

Evo in the news: Sex, speciation, and fishy physics  
More than 500 species of cichlid fish inhabit Africa's Lake Victoria. This news brief from March 2009 explains new research suggesting that the physics of light may have played an important role in cichlid diversification and in the recent drop in their diversity.

Evo in the news: The other green (r)evolution
Though corn is "all-natural" in some ways, in others it is entirely manmade. This news brief from February 2007 explains the evolutionary tools that ancient humans used to engineer modern corn and the tools that scientists are using today to reconstruct corn's evolutionary history.

Evo in the news: Warming to evolution
Global warming increasingly affects many aspects of our environment—from the sea level to tropical storm strength. But that’s far from the full story. This news brief from July 2006 describes how global warming has already begun to affect the evolution of several species on Earth.

The Monterey Pine through geologic time  
Understanding the evolutionary history of the Monterey Pine may help us conserve this species.

Have some evidence for god? Something besides rainbows and rainy days and mondays?
Eric Davis appears to fear creationism entering the classroom more than anything else in the universe....hmmm.
I fear ignorance entering the school. I don't know about you but I hear it is a place to learn things. Science in science class and seminary in the church.
I guess that is complicated.

Some seem to want CIvics taught in shop class.... or something. Sounds like the province of the stupid. 
When this is considered  seems like maybe there is a reason US students are falling behind. 
Math taught in math
Science taught in science

I guess that is too hard. 
Evolution is not true ... If so and all the planets spun into place how come mars is spinning backwards ...... And if so and chemical combined and made all of our earth and space how were chemicals there anyway ..... These show signs of a creator God , Jesus , the only one who could have created all of this it wasn't just by accident . I will leave u thinking with that . 
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