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An extremely progressive set of demands.
News and resources for protesters attending the mass demonstration on Wall Street against financial greed and corruption
Dennis Burke (Citizen Rat)'s profile photoBruce W. Mohler's profile photoJon Zimmer's profile photonathan marlow's profile photo
Wow, I am surprised at how much I disagree with all those. I would consider myself progressive, but I don't think I wanted any of those things.
And if this doesn't happen what will they do? Keep demonstrating? Sure they have nothing else to do I'm pretty sure at least 90% of them are unemployed or they wouldn't be able to spend so much time out there using their iPhones, Androids, tents purchased at REI or Walmart or talking to the corporate news media. What a joke.
Please don't propagate this - it is a distraction. Let's focus on the issues. This does not promote discourse or productive argument. Pick a single issue and argue a point.
Nathan, this does help to determine whether this group is part of the solution or part of the problem.
Also, there isn't a SINGLE issue to pick, there are multiple issues. We all know Wall Street can be greedy, but we have (had) laws to prevent the greed from getting out of hand. Then lobbyists got to the right (or wrong) people, laws were changed and greed went rampant.
If people were more (internally) moral, we might need fewer laws...
OK - I'll agree about judging the group. Note that this doc does not represent the group, but I definitely see that point. The point about picking an issue, wasn't implying that there was only one. It more comes from my belief that we have stopped listening and investigating. We have determined what "team" we're on and we discount views that may prevent that team from winning. So, I will re-phrase. I very much like arguments about issues. It allows me to learn (hopefully) a fact I didn't know or a philosophical argument I had not heard. To list bullet points and then make a judgement is non-optimal in that sense only. I hope that is more clear. To boil this down to an example, I would like to see an article about glass-steagall than a story about occupy wall st. The gutting of that law was one of the fundamental contributors to the economic bubble that collapsed and brought us the "great recession". If we all agree that glass-steagall should be restored, then we can move to the next point.
You're right Nathan. Too often people want to make this about Right/Left instead of right and wrong. They see a debate and instead of listening to the substance they cling to the side they vote with or the side that gives them what they want. Myself, I want the self-determination and independence guaranteed me in The Constitution rather than a nanny-state that wants to give everyone a mediocre cut of all the greatness this country has to offer. There are too many instances of people becoming something from nothing by pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. I've never heard of anyone becoming great because government GAVE them everything, that's how slaves are made not free people. I just don't understand this listing of 'demands' for government to provide things that in the past people went out and got for themselves or if it was a particular niche that was needed made a business of it themselves. If they did it right it succeeded, if not it went under and someone else tries to do better. Free market economics works if you get government out of it.
I generally agree that less regulation is good, but I do believe that government and regulation should play a role in our market economy. I think glass-steagall highlights a benefit. We've proven that we cannot prevent people from abusing conflict of interest for their own profit. By separating banks and financial institutions we had greatly reduced the chance of those powerful few from infringing on our ability to start our own business or just live our lives how we see fit. Of course that act also highlights the problems that occur when government is involved (regulating savings account interest I think was in there). Other than that, I think we're on the same page when it comes to self-determination and independence. I am sometimes stunned with the amount of liberty we have "voluntarily" given up in just the last 10 years and how the abuses of those powers continue to go unchecked. Fundamentally, I wonder if we have forgotten that the government exists because we allow it to...
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