Shared publicly  - 
88
91
Yeehwan Kim's profile photoCameron Pierson's profile photoDiego Alcántara's profile photoAlec Wisner's profile photo
92 comments
 
Probably for being such a leader in clean energy. lol
 
Urge the IRS to live by the law and halt the hand outs
 
+Kenneth Koym Forget urging them to do anything. They're an arm of the Federal Government. You just order them to obey the law. And if they don't ... you put them in jail. Just like they would cheerfully do to us.
 
This is an example of a hole in the tax system.
 
the government got a lot of money in taxes from all those that work there. why would anyone want them to have more? they suck at wasting it. at least exxon does something with it
 
NICE...and I bet they even benefitted from the bail-outs too, huh?
 
Ah, but how much did they have left after they paid all their CEO bonuses and buying their congresscritters??

Yes, I am sarcastic. I also avoid knowingly buying form Exxon/Mobil as much as possible.
 
A lot more than the average working man...
 
I remember in school learning about the Standard Oil monopoly that we broke up into pieces and thinking do we really think that all of these smaller pieces won't just continue to work together? In a way they all do yet still in the form of oil speculation.
 
oh and what about Apple, they are worth more just provide tech gadgets for the rich and are sitting on a pile of cash. at least the oil companies provide a product for all of us in terms of heat, transportation, other chemicals/plastics. everyone makes the oil companies as the bad guys yet nobody cares about the basic slave labor that produces your iPads and other electronic devices.
 
Our government sets the rules of the game for globalized capitalism, at least in this country. Those rules clearly favor the multi-national companies that paid for them through lobbying. These same folks wail at government subsidies for alternative energy as though the playing field were already level. Hypocrisy abounds!
 
This is so insane. Makes me want to throw up.
 
Mrs. Keeton, I'm sorry but this is the sad state of affairs that the President will NEVER speak about...it seems that if the candidate doesn't want to speak on a particular subject they just put the censors on it and wah-lah. No more of that!
 
Victor, Mrs. Keeton is my sister-in-law. I'm Roni or Dr. Keeton, thanx.
 
Ouch .. that hurts my patriotic heart :s
 
Corporate income taxes cost corporations money. In order to maintain higher profits to keep their investors happy (anyone out there got a 401k or 503c retirement fund?) they must pass that cost along to their consumers in the form of higher prices and their employees in the form of lower wages. Therefore, corporate income taxes are a clever way for the government to increase its revenue at our expense without looking like the bad guy. Abolish corporate income taxes altogether and make the government be honest about where the money is coming from.
 
+Alexander Mühle Just so. I have a 401(k) and that means I am a partial shareholder of several dozen corporations. Moreover, I work for one and it pays me reasonably well. I do not want them running amuck, breaking laws, and doing anything just to make a buck. But I do want them making bucks, and I don't want the government taking them away, because that takes them away, in part, from me. And no, I am not a millionaire, to put it mildly.
 
+Ryan Haber Society's more important than easy income. Taxes are how we pay upkeep on valuable social institutions. Either corporations pay taxes or we don't let them set up shop.
 
yea +Abe Mudokons you are right...I should be mad about what i pay and that's WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM with this, and so should you !!!
Do you really think if they only made a profit of 1 Billion they would stop?(like most they would work harder at it) if they paid taxes like i do that's 3 BILLION LESS we half too...
 
+James Mahley, no, that's $3 billion that we would be paying in higher prices, lower wages, and so on.
 
+Ryan Haber Markets arn't everything. We have roads to repair, schools to fund, fires to fight, illnesses to research, and a lot of science to do. Leaving all the funding to things that might make a buck rather than do maintenance on society is very shortsighted.
 
James karaganis, beg your pardon. Stop trying to hold Court and put on a Black Robe; you do not have one and you are wrong. Follow my position. Whereas the US Supreme Court in Citizens United (May 2011) held Corporations have the same rights as people to contribute to political campaigns. Does not mean that they have the same responsibilities as people? If you could bend that far? If in any way it's so, then US Corporations do violate US laws by using off shore havens to stash their loot,. And, though millions of US citizens who oppose what the Honorable 5 in Citizens United who opined, saying: "we accept corporations as having the rights of people." Then, do not 330 million US citizens have a right to demand that until an amendment is passed reversing the "Honorable 5," let's get down right practical and go about hammering out enforcement measures for making the unequal entities equal. Don't follow that? I mean corporations are unequal to people.... they, according to you, have a right to take such and such or some law, though they have no male nor female parts. Categorically, Judge karaganis, there are a lots of fundamental legal and corrupted illegal grounds for finding a trillion dollars to collect from 50 or so corporations. if let's say, 12 million citizens truly get it on with enforcement demands, the face of the situation can change. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Attorney & Judge karaganis, you can argue all you want but it is time that a few million fun loving Humans get past the feeble mind syndrome and cause the so called honorables who make laws and more Judges,who interpret laws to wake up and live with normal thinking capabilities for demanding that any and all of us, including corporations can responsibly pay for our keep.
 
+Abe Mudokons So you're saying that stealing millions of dollars from us taxpayers would... help us? Why don't we just give them all our taxes? Stealing money isn't going to lower gas prices. It's just going to raise the national deficit...
 
mark doubleau please spell out what you are saying and keep this going. I have to get back to community organizing and maybe out to play with the Grand Kids. No, I don't have you kind of dollars to buy this or that stock.. enjoy and ask whomever you can to pick up the tab any chance you can. I say that as stock holders have rights I'll never have.
 
+Ryan Trostle, are you equating not taxing or not taking a higher tax rate with stealing money from the taxpayer? That is really interesting. How does that work?
 
Not to mention we fought the Iraq war for them...
 
It amazes me that no one checked the figures. The $19 billion figure was after taxes. The pre-tax amount was $34 billion. The net tax expense was $15 billion, or 44%. Read their SEC 10-K dated 26Feb2010.
 
+Ryan Hayes, Iraq and Afghanistan combined are barely a 1/4 of our national debt. In any event, you are right. We should not be putting wars on the credit card. If the American people don't want it bad enough to pay for it, then we shouldn't do it.
 
Here is a crazy idea. Make Exxon pay their taxes and close the loopholes so they do not qualify for tax rebates. And then get the hell out of their way and let them become the as productive a company as they can become. We all win in the end.
 
+Ryan Haber They received those millions of dollars as compensation for taxes that they didn't pay. It's just like when we get tax returns, but they paid nothing to begin with.
 
+Pat Gunn, I never said that we shouldn't be funding schools, etc. I only wrote that taxing corporations is just taxing citizens, only with smoke and mirrors. That's why I believe we should abolish all corporate income taxes and make the government be honest about where it gets its money. As +Abe Mudokons wrote, the problem is not lack on income. I know people who make 100k and think they need a pay raise. They need to buy their cars pre-owned and not put the difference on their credit cards. They need to not eat out six nights a week. Our government is like that: spend, spend, spend. And all with a steep interest rate.

It is a crime to pass our spending on to our children, which is exactly what we are doing. They will pay 50% income tax, with more through other means (sales tax, gas tax, property tax, and so on), and they will not have nice schools or sturdy roads to show for it. They will only be servicing the tremendous debt we have accrued for them. Right now, 1 out of 6 souls in this land actually pays the federal income tax, and for each one of us, the foreign debt is about $240,000. Think about that. That's a house.
 
hmmm....sounds like im in the wrong business!
 
Hey Bernie. Care to tell us how much more than $156 Billion the Federal Government already collects in tax on the gasoline Exxon sold? It's more then double that 156 billion. I'm not defending big oil, but taxing Exxon more will only make gasoline cost more. You're only using people's dislike for big oil to as a not so clever way to shake down the working stiff for more money. Explain why we should we put more money in the hands of people like you who have never lived within their means or spent responsibly. Isn't about time Congress shared a little of the pain?
Translate
 
+Ryan Trostle and the 5/6 of Americans who don't pay the income tax, but get all sorts of free goodies... what about them? I mean, a lot of them are children or retirees, to be sure... but about 1/6 of Americans file returns and get full refunds. What did they do to earn reduced tuition, Pell grants, sound roads, a national defense force, police protection, and so on?
 
+Kenneth Koym You don't get it. The IRS is following the tax laws, as written by the oil companies' lobbyists and passed by their bought-and-paid-for Congress.

That is the whole problem with our rotten government right now. The 1% can afford to buy laws to make themselves richer.
 
+Ryan Trostle Receiving tax refunds without paying into the system first occurs all the time. Many families in my area receive large tax refund checks. These checks are often larger than the total amount withheld from my and my wife's checks, yet my family has a much larger income. I see little difference here.
 
+John Larberg Yes, they broke up Standard Oil, but all the latest mergers are doing is putting the pieces together again. Exxon and Mobil were two results of that original breakup.
 
+Christopher Westcott Unfortunately, there is no such person. I am sure you will hear lots of "Ron Paul", but Libertarianism would be far worse.

I truly fear for our country, because the government which should be working for us has been bought by the 1%. "Campaign contributions" are just a legal mechanism for bribery.
 
+Abe Mudokons, or just abolish the income tax. Lolol. What's wrong with import duties, anyway? I'm fed up with free trade.
 
+Ryan Haber You talk about corporate tax effects on prices and wages as if you know nothing about elasticity of demand. Have you ever actually read an economics textbook? Or do you just parrot the stuff from Fox?
 
+Jim McMaster im with you man, i dont think he has ever taken an ecomonics course.. ever.. in his life. Im taking microecomonics THIS SEMESTER and everything he says is pretty much backwards and is part of the problem. sigh one day we will all be equally educated.
 
I like how these types of posts promote discussion, but I hate how these posts can be deceiving. I agree with +Richard Sparrow . please do your research before you comment.
 
+Jim McMaster, I don't watch Fox. It doesn't help you convince anyone to become snarky with someone you never met and who has been entirely civil. That's why I don't watch Fox. For that matter, don't own or watch TV. Brain candy, that's all. Will either you or +Christopher Franko please explain where the money for corporate income taxes comes, if not from their profits? +Christopher Franko, I've taken several economics classes, and moreover, I got through more than the first month of the first class before I started talking down to others. It might occur to you one day that a lot of what you learn in Micro and Macro are not immutable laws, but propaganda for a particular system.
 
+Roland Gee I agree. People as well as corporations get tax rebates/refunds all the time when the amount they had withheld was too big. Some people earn so little, the standard deduction and personal exemption are more than they owe. There are even tax credits for the working poor which can result in a negative tax liability.

Bernie was implying Exxon fell into the last caregory. As much as I admire him, and as much as I stand behind all my previous statements in this thread, Politifact says this example is simply false. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/dec/10/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-filibuster-exxon-mobil/
 
+Christopher Franko Indeed. The sheer level of ignorance on economics (and basic science in general) among the American people is astonishing. I was once in a discussion with a man who thought the difference between micro- and macro-economics was the number of dollars involved!

Anyone reading this who does not understand why that is hilarious should find a copy of a basic economics textbook and read it before commenting on economics, and especially before voting. Seriously. "Economics" by Paul Samuelson is a good place to start, though supply-siders and other nut-cases would disagree.
 
+Ryan Haber You are correct. I should not have assumed, and I apologize.

Money paid in corporate taxes comes both from customers and the owners. The proportion depends on how much the company can raise prices without losing customers. It does not come from the workers at all. Wages depend on the labor market, which is affected by payroll taxes, not the corporate income tax.

That said, if you really consider economics to merely be propaganda for a particular political system, then I actually have less respect for you. You apparently are deliberately spouting nonsense instead of doing so from excusable ignorance. I will not speculate on your motive, since that got me in trouble before.
 
+Jim McMaster you just can't stop, can you? People who disagree with you are nut-cases now. You're right, my bad: corporate profitability has nothing to do with the prices we pay or their ability to pay us. I'm a nut-case. Good call, man. I did not write that I consider economics to be propaganda.

"It might occur to you one day that a lot of what you learn in Micro and Macro are not immutable laws, but propaganda for a particular system."

There is a tremendous amount of disagreement among perfectly respectable economists. Too much, in fact, about basic premises, even, to start swearing by one or the other. It's a field more loaded with politics than virtually any other,

Frankly, you don't seem to respect anyone who disagrees with you, so I am not too put out.
 
I can't believe everyone is arguing over this propaganda. Maybe anyone with intelligence should just stop posting so this stream withers away.+Bernie Sanders suggest you talk to the colleagues you caucus with to stop them from being a breading ground for "big oil" lobbyist. See this Venn Diagram: http://geke.us/BigOilVenn.001.jpg
 
#Looting the taxpayers. It's not a bug of #capitalism; it's a feature.
 
This is ridiculous! How can they get away with not paying any income tax?
 
+Ryan Haber I did not say you are a nut-case, but your arguments that corporate tax rates "force" corporations to raise prices is just not logical. They set prices as high as they possibly can to maximize profits for those shareholders you so revere. To do otherwise would violate their fiduciary duty. Taxes shift the price according to the elasticity of demand. If raising the price to cover the full tax would cost too many sales, it means the maximum profit is lower, so the shareholders take the hit. It might even mean there no longer is a profitable price, which means the company dies.

Similarly, corporate tax rates have nothing to do with wages. If the going rate for a welder is $40/hr, you can't just tell him your taxes went up, so you now are going to pay $35. He'll go somewhere else. It might mean you need fewer welders to make a smaller number of widgets and some macro effect that would lower welder wages.

What I am talking about is basic supply and demand. Those principles are like arithmetic, and no one should consider them "propaganda". All economic theories stem from them, because there are lots of ways to apply the fundamentals and how humans react. Some of them are logical and some are just, well, nutty (in my opinion.)

I hope I have found a way not to offend you.
 
Perhaps they made contributions to environmental concerns. These guys are subsidized by the government anyways... what's another 156 million? /sarcasm
 
How are these Pass-Throughs legal? Isn't it those taxes that give the nation its budget? I'm honestly quite ignorant to exactly all of the processes and laws this country has, but this seems a bit backwards.
 
But I thought that they were people too.....
 
????? why not get rid of the IRS all together so all Americans can live again and keep our MONEY
 
+Nicholas Olivieri Because the US Military, Schools, Interstate Highways, Food Inspectors, Firefighters, Coast Guard, Medicare, and all of the nice things that keep civilization running are not free.
David S
 
Oh so you think it's a GOOD thing that people are dependent on Medicare for their health care and fire fighters for putting out their fires?!? You dems are all the same. All you want is to let the Mexicans come over and shoot all the jobs because of how much you hate white people. #herpderprightwing
David S
 
It very much was. ;)
 
welfare reform.... let stop corp, taxing so we can get this country back... and CLOSE ALL BORDERS like it was 100 years ago oh wait 85 years ago when my grandparents came to Ellis land.!! from Italy and Germany and have to take a test to see if you are worthy enough to enter our beloveth Country I can't stand the Government in my pocket we DO NOT need them read the (Constitution) and our BILL OF RIGHTS and then all who are here for free and to all our congressman for using illegals should have their rights taking away from them.
 
Let me ask eveyone a question????.... If you had a company that make, lets say hub caps just saying and you were selling them for $50 dollars $32 dollars is going to Taxes your profit $18 is that fare....if you said yes then ur a Democrat..... now you raise your prices up to $100 dollars and $32 dollars is still going to uncle sam for what I like $68 over eighteen now the Government come in and tells you, you are not allow to make a profit what are you going to do......
David S
 
Are...are you ok sir? You seem to be having a stroke or something. Do you need assisstance?
 
+Nicholas Olivieri Really? Some forms of welfare do need to be reformed, but not for the same reasons that you think that they should be. For starters, unlike what Newt says, most people on welfare are White.

Also, on border security... Do you realize that under the current administration there has been more boots on the ground and more deportations. While everyone agrees that illegal immigration is not a good thing, we have over 10 million illegal immigrants, many of which have lived here most of their lives. It is unrealistic that you believe that they will all leave. Also, borders can't be simply closed off to legal immigrants. Do you realize all that immigrants have brought to the US? Google, Intel, the Atom bomb, and NASA are just a few of the things that this country has because of immigrants.

I'm not going to argue with you about the constitution, for starters your argument is not coherent and for a group of people who like "small government" you guys show it in a weird way. Controlling women's reproductive parts is not small government. Controlling who my partner should be is not small government. Having a department of the government whose only task is to look into people's lives is not small government. Trying to manipulate the rights of those who do not believe in the same religion that you do isn't only not a good example of small government, it's downright unconstitutional, and violates the treaty of Tripoli.

Finally, taxes... The government has major functions that it needs to perform, some are mandated by our founding fathers (military, post, etc), others aren't. Schools, Social services, infrastructure, and other items are essential for our society. Additionally, businesses should pay taxes, sometimes to a higher extent than people. Without the government to be there for them, businesses would not be the same. Those very hub caps that you mentioned need the very government funded infrastructure to get to the customers, the workers that operated the plant were educated by our government, the police that prevents people from stealing the items in your factory are government founded, and the thing preventing the poor from stealing everything in your factory to then resell and use to live is government funded welfare. The justice department that makes sure that your hubcap design is not stolen in government funded. Ensuring that the water that is pumped to your factory is safe to use and drink is done by the government. The food that you eat during lunch is inspected by the government. Businesses benefit from the government, sometimes even more so that individuals. It is in the businesses best interest that the government keeps the infrastructure in good shape and educates the workers that will be running your plant tomorrow.
 
+Nicholas Olivieri The hubcap business sounds pretty bad. Strange thing is, I've noticed nothing but breaks from the government for running my own business. Seeing plenty of profit in other businesses too. Funny how they mostly bitch about how oppressed they are...
 
NOT SURPRISING....CONSIDERING WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
 
UNTRUE my friend,... you realy need to due your home work, so only reason you believe is because you are a democrat, and they promise you a TAX break let me tell you corp taxes does not work I have friends Mexico and America's corp go their,... why because it's cheaper in labor/corp can make a profit is what I'm in buseness for I don't know about you I like all my money so I would pay higher sale Tax at the pumps or at the department store. I'll tell you what research this: www.fairtax.org and let me know what you think remember I am Italian/German desended
 
I just told you I run my own business. I have for the last 12 years, and it's been profitable. How you found that fact to be "untrue" is something you'll have to work out for yourself.

My problem hasn't once been taxes, but rather the competition made possible by clients who have exported jobs overseas. And that's their prerogative, but that's hit my bottom line WAAAAY more than taxes ever did. And lower profits mean I can't hire.

Say all corporate tax was ended. Those jobs wouldn't have stayed here; the cost for labor in Eastern Europe and Asia fall so far below what Americans require to maintain their standard of living, we'd only screw ourselves twice: once for conceding tax revenue on corporate profit, derived in no small part from slashing their American workforce, and again for raising taxes on a smaller workforce to try and compensate?

Interesting though how no corporate fanatics were complaining when this country decided to launch wars in two countries, inflate an already straining entitlement system, or bail out banks, who trashed the housing market by turning their backs on responsible lending in favor of playing games in the derivatives markets.

But I am sure if we talk long enough that will be a Democrat's fault too. Which is fine with me -- I'm an independent.
 
+Nicholas Olivieri I know all about the "fair tax" and most Americans, not only the democrats agree with a progressive tax rate. I do not think it's fair that Willard "Mitt" Romney paid 14% in taxes, while I paid 15% (Student and Worker). The rich used to pay much more when your descendants came to this county and they had a pretty good life. All that most Americans want is to go back to Clinton era taxes, back when most were doing great. I believe that with tax rates back to the 90's rates and re-focusing in infrastructure and other kinds of spending that will stimulate the economy will do us some good.
 
sorry Michael, thats why Corp is leaving America their are in it for the bottom line Profits. so like me ask you this if I came to you with a flat tax just pay at the pump/store 20% sale would you be happy
 
Why would I be happy? I may not be an economist, but it doesn't take that much training to realize a tax system isn't something you can levy as a single product. Complex as the tax code is, it's not complicated merely because someone somewhere profits from complication.It's complicated because tax policy is the means by which government tries to guide beneficial economic behavior.

Just saying "hey, x% tax on everything" presupposes that all economic policy pivots on consumption. Presumably, people who buy more pay more in tax, right? Except what if 100% of your income buys just what you need? Then you have to find a way to live on .80 for every dollar, yes? And what if you make profit? By definition, tax rolls into your expense, and profit is by definition tax-exempt?

What you're promoting as a level playing field is inherently regressive taxation, and nothing more.
 
I don't agree with that. I have never found the IRS to be bloated or hostile. I have never found SSA to be, on its face, a bad program. The IRS by and large keeps citizens honest: models like Greece. Italy and Spain tell us plenty about the consequences of lackluster tax collection.

The SSA by and large keeps a lot of people fed and their rent paid. I have no qualms with helping to keep poor and old people warm and dry.
 
Maybe you should tell the truth, Sanders. They didn't pay taxes in 2009 because they overpaid in 2008 therefore didn't have to pay. Their tax rate in 2008 was over 35% - some of the highest around. Socialists....pfffff.
 
+Spencer Scott It's your contention that Exxon overpaid taxes in 2008 to such a degree that it had more than covered its 2009 liability? $19 billion in profit the following year, and they paid in advance for that? I call bullshit.
 
+Spencer Scott I didn't realize that the IRS had a pre-paid tax program... pfft...

With a tax hating bunch like Exxon, I dont think they would ever overpay a cent in taxes. Actually I'm sure a sizable sum of their money is kept in the beautiful sandy beaches of the Cayman Islands, or the spectacular Swiss Alps.
 
Its called capitalism. Its how America works. They run a company to be profitable.
David S
+
1
2
1
 
It doesn't have to be how America works. That's the beauty of having a (supposedly) mutable system of laws.
 
Social Sercurity was like welfare when it was invented, a temperary solution to America's War time. It was to help the Women take care of their bills while their man were off fighting. As it stands SS is BROKE like Medicare why take something out of my checks if I can't use it, for the last 5 years I've opt out of paying into a system that is crupt all Government Agencies have their hands in this program. I am sorry for my self and for the younger generation to have to put into something that not their, and thats were food stamps/tanf come in the more on it it's time to BORROW from SS to give to welfare hello!! if not were do we get the dam money from money tree, wave a wond what..
 
Social Security was developed in the 30's as an assurance, primarily for elderly and disabled people who could no longer work. It has of course been amended over time and casts a wider net now, but it was never a war-time program and certainly not conceived as some kind of stopgap measure.

Feel free to opt out! All you need is a sole proprietorship or other single-owner business entity. Then you can file for an exemption and stop paying into SSI, as well as unemployment insurance in most states. That's been true for decades. What a business can't do is opt its employees out of those programs. Assuming that's what you really want to do, hey: businesses in China, India and elsewhere are waiting to hear from you.

You still don't want to offer benefits to people who help you make money? Fine. Limit yourself to contract labor and keep your business small. There's all sorts of ways to stay under the radar is that's truly what you think is free or right living.
 
You want to know how to fight back.... STOP SPENDING...

If America went on true spending strike, the world would listen.

Save every dime you can, buy only products from local business... And yes, if that means you can't buy the new ipad, then so be it... Do you want what right, or what makes you feel good....?

And keep the spending freeze in-place until we see measurable action on the part of the politicians on DC.
 
But it should be noted Social Security had plenty of money. That is until we raped it to pay for wars.......
 
Think of it this way... If you made $19,000 in 2009, and you got a tax refund of $156. What's the problem here. Tons of other companies get tax breaks for anything they do nowadays. 
Add a comment...