Thanks for everyone who helped get to the bottom of this.
Thanks for everyone who helped get to the bottom of this.
I'm preparing my reviews, but the sneak preview is that Monoprice's cables are not flawless, and some of the adapters on this list are flat out banned by the spec, yet Monoprice produced them anyway (see if you can guess which one).
Should have something ready to post in a few days.
To my knowledge, that behavior doesn't cause any problems with any devices I've tried. The sink just looks at the list of PDOs again and sends another request.
Codename "Chell" the Chromebook 13 is an Skylake-Y based design with USB Type-C and USB PD based charging system, capable of 45W.
It also supports DisplayPort Alternate mode and USB 3.1 Gen 1 SuperSpeed data!
So far, has done a few reviews to show how well it works with , , and Lacie chargers and display-docks, and external hard drives!
#USBC #USB #TypeC
tl;dr: Safe USB-C 3A charger. Well engineered. However, both Type-A ports SHARE 2.4A.
(Please see this post for what has had chilling effects on my testing for USB-C compliance and safety:)
I finally found a charger that has proper USB-C detection and current supply. I was able to charge my N6P at a full 3A. I was even able to pull the full 27W it is rated for at 80% efficiency. That's pretty good!
One weird note, unfortunately. This charger appears to be a USB-C 3A charger and USB-A 2.4A charger (with two outlets) smushed into a single housing. If you are charging two Apple devices, they will charge at half speed if at all. Thankfully, I only needed a USB-C charger with "a" USB-A backup port, so I can simply use this to charge one USB-C device and one USB-A.
Another interesting thing about this charger I'd like to mention is rather silly: its size. This thing is beefy. Some of that space might be being used for thermal dissipation or proper circuit designs. The 80% efficiency lends support to that supposition.
If you ever see a charger that claims more wattage than a first-party charger, but it is smaller, and cheaper, RUN AWAY! They usually don't support either (a) the thermal design characteristics or (b) they use simplified, cheaper, smaller power circuits. Those types of designs lack safety, and when they overload they can take out your device.
However, larger doesn't necessarily mean better! (There is a minimum size for a certain safe circuit, but no maximum.)
Do you remember back when people weighed PSUs to guess the quality/quantity of electrical components, and in turn to determine PSU quality? Let's hope USB-C charger manufacturers don't start putting lead weights in them, or making them big like 80's insertable shoulderpads.
.... wait, too late. Darnit.
Anyone want to review that crazy thing for me? I'll get my hammer pants.
If a good brand has an issue, they'll try to fix it. (Like . They made a mistake with their chargers, but are trying to correct it.) Shady brands will just change the silk-screening on the charger, move on, and keep selling it. So reviewing them is like playing whack a mole, meaningless.
This charger is out of spec, according to Nathan. Don't buy it.
tl;dr: Bad charger. Vbus hot, single Rp bridged CC. Do not buy.
(Reposted due to album error.)
Note: I lack advanced LCR equipment or QC 3.0 devices compared to professionals, so I can only examine the basics of this adapter. However as evidenced in the above Amazon review, this shows examples of "bad behavior".
This charger is the third iteration by Tronsmart. Previous models place QC 3.0 on the USB-C port, which is a violation of USB-C specs. Other models supply 2.4A, when the standards call for 1.5A or 3.0A. (2.4A would only be possible through Apple-esque D+/D- manipulation in addition to a 1.5A CC Rp resistor... legal, but silly.)
I had hoped this was the One Charger To Rule Them All (N6P/N5X) and In the Darkness Bind Them (G5/HTC10, at least via a "legal" A-to-C cable.) 2 out of 3 isn't bad, right? Charger legal, Cable legal, Phone... not so much. Sadly, this is not the "Goldilocks" charger you are looking for.
Thanks for the corrections everyone!
Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. After a full year of selling a non-compliant Type-C phone, follows up with their OnePlus3 that ALSO doesn't support USB host in the correct way according to the Type-C spec. The OnePlus 2 shipped with a noncompliant cable, and their "otg" mode was noncompliant such that official C device adapters would not work, and so is the OnePlus 3, apparently.
They simply haven't learned how to build a phone properly.
Thanks for the scoop.
Folks, avoid OnePlus's phones if you want a phone that actually works with peripherals in the growing USB Type-C ecosystem like thumbdrives, for goodness sake.
It's a good read, though he steers away from talking specifically about USB Type-C, it's a good explainer about how Battery Charging 1.2 (BC1.2) works.
I saw your reviews on amazon and found them really helpful. You are doing a great job. Well, I'm confused and I think only you can help me. I'm using Nexus 5X and I'm in search of power bank and a perfect cable for it. So far I was thinking of getting Oneplus's cord for charging with MI's 20k power bank. But after reading your reviews I don't think it's a good idea. So can you help me with this, Which power bank and cable shoud I buy without damaging my phone?
Thanks in advance. :)
I particularly liked this part of this press release :
In addition, widespread adoption of the resulting International Standards will help to reduce the encroachment of poorly designed or manufactured aftermarket substitutes which may affect the operation of electronic devices in compliance with regulatory requirements.
Here's hoping that's true... A lot of noncompliance out there still.
Watch for his reviews before you click Buy on IoT devices like smarbulbs and smart outlets.
Great work! It's so great to see others take to consumer sites like Amazon to clean up ecosystems!
tl;dr: Because it will make your active/e-marked cables fail to charge. And your device think it is a headphone jack. You could also potentially blow your DAC or charging circuit.
(Note: corrections, comments, or clarifications are welcomed.)
Recently I posted a critical review of a charger that bridged CC pins and used only one Rp resistor. The manufacturer stated it was for "compatibility" with non-compliant devices. Benson explained this is bad, but people may not understand HOW serious this matter is. Cue this post.
(You can follow along with the pictures below using a basic understanding of circuits. Or memes.)
In the first image, I show how things "should" work. Two separate Rp resistors. By varying Rp you change the voltage on the CC line, vRd-USB. The charger and device sense this voltage to find each other. The device also learns how much current it is allowed to pull. (This is where Benson's crusade began!)
In the second image, I show what happens when you start cutting corners and "things go bad". Some manufacturers -- saving $0.001 by omitting a resistor ( http://goo.gl/t8C8zq ) -- use a single Rp and bridge the CC pins instead.
This is a violation of Section 18.104.22.168.1: "Initially, a Source exposes independent Rp terminations on its CC1 and CC2 pins, and a Sink exposes independent Rd terminations on its CC1 and CC2 pins"
If using an e-marked/active cable (as will be mandatory soon), there is an Ra pulldown on the second CC pin inside the cable. With an illegal charger there are now two paths to ground. You now have something called a "voltage divider" merging both CC pins. The formulas get a bit messy, but you can simplify the circuit. The resulting vRd-USB makes no sense to the device. It may charge slowly, not at all, or behave erratically.
First-rate [e-marked] cables like 's Thunderbolt 3/USB-PD line won't even work with this kind of spec-violation!
(StarTech, if you are reading this, please consider joining Benson Leung in calling out non-compliant USB-C products. Manufacturers violating spec will make you and your well-engineered cables look bad. I can guarantee in the future, someone will post "Why isn't my ___ charging at full speed with my $40 StarTech cable? It works fine with my cheap [non e-marked] cable.")
In the third picture, I show how a non-compliant charger may even cause an active/e-marked cable to appear as a "Audio Adapter Accessory"... in other words, a headphone jack! If the partner device is "DRP" capable, it may misinterpret the CC bridging as the presence of Ra on both pins. This is a unique alternate mode that repurposes the USB D+/D- pins to output analog audio signals from the phone's DAC. (There is already one phone on the market that lacks a 3.5mm audio jack, with more coming.)
You may have read about how Benson is loudly warning Qualcomm QC is illegal on USB-C. This is one reason why. QC 3.0 modulates the voltages on... you guessed it... the USB D+/D- lines to change the voltage delivered to the phone. QC had to do this on USB-A since there were only 4 wires. But USB-C has [2 pins/1 wire]¹ dedicated to negotiating voltage, and [at minimum 5 wires/11 pins]¹. (Apple chargers have D+/D- signaling too, but is merely the charger telling the phone it MAY take extra current. Not instructing the charger to jack up the voltage.)
The possibility exists -- however remote -- that an [illegal] QC-over-USB-C charger, with an [illegal] bridged CC pin, with a [GOOD] active cable, and [GOOD] phone, will result in the phone being fried.
(Disclaimer: this is a worst-case-scenario, based on my best understanding. I may have erred in a calculation -- darnit Jim I'm a MechE not an EE -- but it is my humble attempt at explaining how this one flaw [bridged CC pins] can blow up bigtime. I'll explore other "illegal" scenarios in other posts.)
¹: Thank you to Benson for pointing out the bare minimums! Please see "Table 3-11 USB 2.0 Type-C Standard Cable Assembly Wiring" for details.
#USB #TypeC #USBC
I don't think it's right to suggest it includes better quality control. I'm helping someone with an Asus G501VW-FY081T where the Thunderbolt 3 port only works one way round! So while neat, Thunderbolt 3 has its own quirks.
As for resistor signaling, it is there so you can make really simple chargers. A 10kR resistor to 5V with a captive cable is the bare minimum of circuitry. If you do want a chip, these exists that do exactly what you describe (USB-PD):
- Software Engineer, 2010 - presentLinux kernel developer on the Chrome OS team.
- Marvell Technology GroupSoftware Engineer, 2006 - 2010
- Intel CorporationSoftware Engineer, 2005 - 2006
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