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"Since voter fraud is so obviously a ruse, we are left to discern the GOP's real goal from the effects of its actions" -- Dan Froomkin
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Karl B. Hille's profile photoDavid Foster's profile photoLarry (Lars) Chaffin's profile photoCheri Coleman's profile photo
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Not so obviously to the rest of us. 

How can you exist in the real world and not have basic ID?
 
David, it is not a legal requirement to have an ID, If you don't have a drivers license (and of course outside of NYC that would only be poor people) there is no requirement to have one. Now I have had a DL for the last 30+ years, but if I did not have a car I might not, especially if I had been at my job for a long time, or retired. This whole charade about requiring it is purely to disenfranchise poor and minority voters. When you consider they overwhelmingly vote democratic you can see why the republican party is pushing for it. There has been no proof of any voter fraud, leaving only one reason to require it.
 
the liberal left just seems to so enjoy digging up those their world order has placed and left in the gutters very conveniently, when it comes to discussions like this. oh, so now all of a sudden the human garbage all the left elites use as cheap slave labor, to make their own lives so luxurious and convenient, as well as their token proof of the ' dysfunction of the right republican political system' inhabitants of ghettos and the cruelest forms of poverty are used as a political toy, to pass measures to increase personal convenience even more for the liberal left, and will, like always, be redeposited in the garbage thereafter again, so one more of you can obtain a new prius... typical. why in the world would this measure only!¡ disadvantage these groups of people in the first place?????
veeeeeerrryyyyyy social.....
 
There has been plenty of evidence for it, and this is not a huge burden to ask of people. 
 
There are already plenty things that you need id to do WITHOUT the voting thing. What's the issue here? How can people survive without id's nowadays?
 
That is a pretty strained way to look at it. 

Does this mean, every place that DOES require ID is violating equal protection, or just most of them? 
 
William, so what?  why do we need an ID to vote?  where is the anecdotal evidence that this measure will do anything positive?  Whether you think it a fair policy or not I don't see what it will accomplish.
 
and this is a rampant problem? show me proof.  not that it could happen but that it does happen, and enough to matter.  Never been an issue before now all the sudden we must stop all these "illegals" from voting!  Its fear mongering at its best in an attempt to address a non- existent problem because it forwards their agenda.  without evidence that its an actual problem I'm left to imply that as their only possible motivation.
 
lowering gas prices?  how about if we lowered the demand for it?  if nobody wants it, it'll be cheap as hell.
 
and we are led right back to . ... Voter fraud?
 
show me proof. until you do, you do nothing but echo talking points and contribute nothing to the conversation.  we know where you stand, we disagree and show proof and you give us the above comment.  Thanks for playing your opinion is invalid.
 
IDs do not cost much, only 8 dollars here (not drivers license). Its not difficult at all to get one.
 
whats your point Tiffany?  If voter fraud is not a problem, as we have consistently proven throughout this post, then any measure to counteract it is an undue burden on the voting public. not to mention a huge waste of time in the legislatures of these states.  Which probably have more important things to deal with, you know like ACTUAL PROBLEMS!
 
Compared to the steps Obama's taking to get as many illegal aliens to vote as possible, and buying "women's" votes by agreeing to have the government pay for women's birth control, you'd think they could kick up $8 a person for all the votes they'd gain from these neighboerhoods.
 
I'm all for showing ID.  Is there anything wrong with someone flashing their ID prior to voting?  I don't think so.
 
Is there anything necessary about it?  I dont think so.
 
+Jared Skaarup Absolutely as both parties should welcome it as a small but legitimate tool in the checks and balances.  In other words it benefits both parties and even third party candidates.
 
Im sorry Brian, but considering all research I have been able to read shows this to be a non existent problem, I'm left unable to believe the altruistic motivations you have put forth.  In my opinion any unecessary hinderance of a persons right to vote is wrong. 
 
+Jared Skaarup You apparently never lived in Pennsylvania or worse yet in the Pittsburgh area.  We've had so much election fraud here in the last 20 years it would shock you.  We've had rigged machines, people just showing up using others names, stickers placed on the machine faces "vote for change" etc. not to mention the sign theives who engage in ditching the other parties signs on a Sunday evening drive.  I personally have a printout whereby only two elections (without looking at it) being reported accurately.  Someone was tilting the machines on most occasions while others were flooding ballots of deceased etc.  It's disturbing to note that this behavior actually exists but it does.  It's how some have been elected without work.
 
Brian, your "first hand acount" contradicts all credible research on voter fraud.  Have you followed any of the links posted?  We are talking a frequency in the ten thousandth of a percent range.  Not a statistically significant enough frequency to merit an obstacle to voting in my opinion.
 
+Jared Skaarup All things considered with amount of taxpayer fraud perpetrated on the public this in my opinion makes good sense as it doesn't require a whole lot of money here.  The legislation really costs nothing and with everything digitally done I hardly see the need to produce an 8000 page book that says "show us your ID" simply put it's no difference than having to show ID when buying a little libation so no there is no hindrance as it does protect both parties and anyone else running.  One vote deliberately and illegally obtained is too many..
 
One vote deliberately supressed is too many. 
 
It's funny that Ohio does not want people to show and ID. How can you validate that a voter is legal or that person without an Id picture check? Ohio governor and staff are idiots with this one. 
 
Akorn voting fraud scandal. It happened in the last presidential election. Ruse? hmmmmmm.
 
It's funny that the folks advocating voter ID on this thread have not produced a single source of credible evidence that it is occurring. How can you possibly justify the need for a new law that will prevent some Americans from voting without a shred of actual evidence?
 
Yes suppressing those poor socially responsible people who can't be troubled with valid i.e.. Al Scott called me a moron for not agreeing with him, and then compared me to rush Limbaugh. Ironic.
 
So +Steven Pugh you are not concerned at all that these laws are based on no evidence of fraud but could prevent people from voting? What's American about preventing your fellow citizens from exercising their constitutional right?
 
He doesn't appear to consider them "fellow citizens" he in fact seems to have disdain for anyone who may find themselves in a situation in which their right was stripped.
 
Requiring a photo I.D. does not prevent anyone from voting any more than requiring people to register to vote does. If a person wants to vote the requirement is clear, ensure you have a valid photo I.D. and are registerd in your area. Anyone who cant be troubled to do these things probably wasnt going to burden themselves with standing in a voting line anyway. The arguments against are so flimsy that it makes me question the true motive behind it. +Brian Savarese  
 
The idea is not to wait until voter fraud becomes an issue. Our regulations to prevent voter fraud are antiquated. The purpose is to be proactive and to prevent voter fraud not reactive and make laws after the fact. I do find it interesting that requiring a valid I.D. is claimed to  affect the inner city more than other areas. People in rural areas that have to drive an hour to get to the nearest licensing facility are not affected as dramatically. Wierd.
 
Weird that you don't read any links that are posted.
 
I am not a democrat or a republican I register Independent. Yes the GOP has lost sight of the meaning of conservative and has been practicing radical beliefs under the banner of conservatism. Democrats dont want these laws to pass because it is too hard to energize their base if the base has to put any effort into it. The fact is requiring I.D. is so practical and common it is required to even rent a video. You must have one to withdraw money, write a check, and hundreds of other mundane task. The idea there has been no voter fraud is somewhat ludicrous as the allegations have come up in the last two presidential elections. Does anyone remember Florida? It was a mess. The recount that led to Al Franken getting elected after allegations of fraud? Without the allegations of fraud that seat would be held by a republican rather than a democrat. I find both republican and democrats to clouded by how it affects their party to make a good common sense decision about anything.
 
+ Jared Skaarup If you dont vote because you dont have an I.D. no one took your right; you gave it up. That is no different than just not registering. If you dont register to vote and dont get to vote no one took anything from you; you put no effort into exercising your right. In your argument the government should go door to door to collect votes so no one is inconvienenced in order to exercise their right. I have had to fill out an absentee ballot several times to be able to vote. I did it because exercising my right to vote is important to me so I am willing to put a little bit of effort forward. Just get an I.D. its too easy. 
 
Most of the argument against is based on the idea that having to show a valid I.D. would prevent people from being able to vote. This is a very flimsy argument. Getting an I.D. card preventing people from voting is akin to saying having to pick an apple prevents people from eating. Its a bad argument. You obviously enjoy research, go find a solid argument and then make a stance. It may be easier to do if you remove party biases from thinking before you start.
 
I'm approaching elderly, have no car, am impoverished and basically disabled, and yet even I can still manage to get out once every 4 years to renew my driver's license!  Most states issue ID's at the same place you get your driver's license renewed, so this to me is a fallacious argument.  I fully SUPPORT having to show a proper ID before I can vote!  To me there's no reason on God's green earth to NOT have to show a picture ID at the voting polls.  And I say this as a 40 yr + Democrat.
 
does anyone read links?  or is this just a case of I believe this so nothing you say will change that?  Numerous posts above you will see a link that i posted, follow it, it will give you numerous instances in which similar law has served to disenfranchise a voter.  That in addition to the fact that this does not combat any discernable fraud.  As we have proven via numerous links to credible sources.  So no benefit, in fact a detriment to our democracy
 
Dan you are either a complete A....or you really think any year circa the 50's was the good old days??? For who?
 
Sandie are you sure your a democrat?  Your ability to call bullushit before analyzing any of the facts tells me otherwise.
 
+Al Scott are you a radio personality because you argue like it. So far you have stood fast to a claim that does not completely cover the issue and when resonable arguments are made you rersort to name calling. Ironically one of the names you use is someone who argues in very much the same style as you. If you are willing to have an educated discussion that does not include words like stupid, moron, and rush limbaugh; please feel free to put down the teen angst and join a grown up discusssion.  
 
I agree with Brian & the other voices of reason here.  I've been a Democrat for over 40 years now and I see nothing wrong with this law.  In fact, I welcome it because it reduces the POSSIBILITY of voter fraud, i.e., vote early and vote often, to basically zero.  For all you naysayers, there IS a history of voting fraud in this country from its get-go, should you care to do some reading on it.  And for the umpteenth time, I will say once again that I should be the poster child to oppose this law - instead, I'm defending it.  I'm poor, without transportation, approaching elderly, basically disabled, and yet I can still manage to save the 60 cents each month so that every four years I can pay the $20 to renew my driver's license.  It could just as easily be a State ID, for all I care.  ID's are required for virtually everything these days and I, too, cannot imagine anyone in this day and age not having one.  You need a photo ID if: you go to school; rent a car, movie, etc.; open a bank acct/do banking; drive a car; buy insurance; and 50 million other things most of us do everyday.  In this day and age where we have so much crime, domestic & international terrorism, etc., it actually comforts me to know that at least foreigners can't come in and vote in our elections - which they have no right to do.  As far as standing in line, people do that everyday, too - at the grocery store, the bank, the movies, at concerts/sporting events, driver's license/car registration, etc. That's not a valid argument.  None of these arguments against these laws are valid.  Not one.
 
Sandie if you can not imagine it, it doesn't exist right?  You say we have a history of voter fraud?  Prove it. Voter fraud is not a problem in this country therefore our current measures must be working, making any additional measure overkill.  So until you can PROVE there is a need for the law, i really dont care how easy it might be.  It'd be easy for me to urinate on my sofa every morning but that doesn't mean there is a reason to.
 
From a conservative's perspective, a weight requirement for voting would be fair as long as the standard was limited to the average conservative's weight. The liberal complains that this discriminates against everyone who weigh more than this. The conservative suggests dieting as a remedy available to everyone and consideres this to be equal opportunity.
 
@Jared, you seriously don't know this country's history of voter fraud?????  OMG, I scarcely know how to or even IF I should respond to that.  If you have absolutely no knowledge of any voter fraud at any time in our country's history, then I don't think I have the time or the effort to educate you.  I suggest you take a basic American History course at your local university....of course, you'll have to show a photo ID......
 
Oh sandie you're so clever insulting my intelligence.  Show me proof of recent voter fraud.  And that it occurs to a statistically significant extent.  Then and only then will I consider this law reasonable.
 
Republican Gov. Tom Corbett believes that fraud exists. That's why he signed Pennsylvania's voter ID law. And of all people, he should know. He was the state's attorney general for eight years. Okay, so he didn't actually prosecute any cases during that time. But that was probably because all the fraud was at the hands of Democrats, and he was afraid of being accused of prejudice. Anyway, he's made up for it by backing his friends in the legislature in their noble efforts to protect the integrity of the ballot box at the expense of one million or more duly registered voters.
 
I thought that was my point, but so much for dripping sarcasm. Anyway, Al, tone done the rhetoric. I share your sentiments, but you do the cause more harm than good by aiming lower than even Rush Limbaugh usually goes. In answer to your question: There are no cases of any note where people have registered under various names so they can vote often on election day. There are some cases, of course, where felons vote, but voter IDs won't stop that felons don't need them when they have driver's licenses. It is all, as you imply, a load of W.S.
 
+Sandie Limpert and +John Herald I have enjoyed discussing this with you. John I doubt we will ever agree on this one but I always enjoy a good rational debate. +Al Scott is calling a democrat and an independent racist right wingers so I think I am going to look elsewhere for a debate that has a little more reason and a little less abbrasion.
 
@Jared, yes, I'm sure I'm a Democrat but sometimes I wonder why.  I'm actually someplace between a Democrat, Progressive, Socialist, if that makes sense.  I think, like most people, I have views that run the gamut from conservative to moderate to liberal.  Overall, I'd say I was more pragmatic than anything else.

Look, this is a law that not only addresses any current voter fraud, but PREVENTS any possibility of voter fraud EVER....unless one gets a fake photo ID.  I suppose there really is no way to truly prevent voter fraud unless we implement fingerprint scans or eye scans...neither of which I would necessarily object to, either. 

Again, there's been voter fraud of one type or another ever since our country's inception.  Votes were openly sold at some points in our history.  Instances of men (before women could vote, unless you're going to contest that, as well!) voting several times occurred so often that legislation had to be introduced and in some cases law enforcement had to be stationed at polls.  These are all matters of public record and documented history.

Again, you could learn all about this by taking a course in basic American History at your local university.....or you could just mosey on down to your local library and read all about it.  Of course, if you want to check out a book, you'll need a photo ID.......
 
Listen, if voter fraud is so obviously a ruse, then you libs come up with a plan that protects our constitution and country from illegals being able to vote.  The fact is you cant and have no interest in coming up with such a plan because it's the only way libs can win any major election in this country and that is through fraud.  We've seen this time and time again with orgs such as ACORN and we all know this isnt about inconveniencing people.  Voting is without a doubt one of the most important things you can do as a citizen and if you dont protect the system from fraud, then your entire political system is a fraud.  It's amazing that valid id is required by just about every other major governmental transaction yet requiring someone to prove they are a citizen is somehow to inconvenient to ask people to do which we all know is b.s.  The lies you libs are using to make this argument are so transparent.  It's like yelling the sky is green over and over when we all know it's blue.  Get with the program or find another country to screw up.
 
Its amazing how many of you hard left libs are saying there is zero voter fraud now and yet when Al Gore lost against Bush, you guys claimed there was voter fraud, and yet we all know there is fraud, and we all know that Obama sending his henchman Eric Holder to sue every state that was enacting laws against sanctuary cities and voter i.d. requirements was clearly an attempt to make it easier for illegals to vote and also support him. When he lost his suit against Arizona he had Holder declare that they were stopping all enforcement of the immigration service.  I mean seriously have you heard whats happening in Monterrey Mex. lately?  This is what is coming to America if you don't freaking wake up.  The entire problem in Mexico is based on corrupt politics and fraud.  So how in the world do you think this is not going to transfer to the American political system once you allow this culture into ours.  Saying there is no voter fraud is like saying there is no fraud in Medicare, or the healthcare system in general or any other government service like Food Stamps.  We all know it is rampant, the evidence is clear and vast.
 
Look at the statistics Stephen, they are factual numbers not inventions.  You are using an argument with no facts to back it up.  In fact accusingly stating that it has everything to do with letting illegals vote!  Saying there is no voter fraud is backed up by statistics unlike anything you provided.  You hard rights love to make your own "facts".  At least a half a dozen links on this thread alone demonstrating the infrequency of voter fraud, all from reputable sources.  If it is so rampant and the evidence clear and vast show it to me.  Thats all I ask, show me.  If you can, I'll concede and admit the need for photo ID.  Continue to scream about stopping the illegals from voting and you can count me out.
 
in case you didn't know it...the land in question...the land "Mexicans" are being booted out of....used to belong to them...and since you care so much about the "illegals"...do you happen to know how many illegal "European" and "other" aliens are in this country...but because they can "pass" far more easily than those with a "shade" less acceptable and far easier to detect as not being "white".....please tell me why you aren't going after them...and just for the record, this country never belonged to you...it was stolen from Natives and parts of Mexico that existed prior to the settlers was bought from them..so please if you want to talk intelligently about anything "American" you need to check your racism at the door and admit you could care less about voter fraud that does not exist and learn to live in a multicultural world that is here to stay...thank GOD!
 
Gore did not lose...the votes were not counted....period...that is a fact liberal or not....you can't have it both ways....
 
Hey Cheri, I lived in Mexico for ten years so dont try to lecture me on the facts, you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Yes, i do,,,,because my world is not limited by my thinking...i see both sides of a story and then I commit myself to finding out the truth...even when that truth proves me wrong....and what has living in Mexico got to do with respecting the people...I see you didn't respond to why "other" illegal aliens in the country are not harassed or spoken of....i don't want to fight and I have no need to prove a truth...if you want to discuss a thing please do it from the premise that we both might have something to learn rather than drawing a line in the sand in which all we do is prove how ignorant we are...have a good evening....
 
@Cheri, I agree with your basic premise of not taking sides but looking at both sides and then looking for the truth.  Unfortunately, the far left and the radical right are incapable of doing so.  If you disagree with the radical right then you are a liberal left; similarly, if you disagree with the liberal left then you are a radical right.  I am neither a radical right nor a liberal left and am more interested in the truth of a matter than which "side" is presenting it.

This is not a bad law.  I am one that firmly sits on the side of prevention.  From an analytical pov, I try to see all the "angles', i.e., "if this, then that".  I've ALWAYS been required to show a photo ID before voting, regardless of what state I've lived in, so obviously there are some states that do require this already and have for at least the 40 years I've been voting.  It's nothing new.

As far as the possibility of illegal residents voting, I don't care WHERE they come from - although I think your argument that there are as many illegal residents here from European and other countries as from Mexico and South American countries doesn't hold water.  In order to get here from Europe or the Middle East one would have to come through customs, unless you know of many people that swim the Atlantic Ocean.......

Coming across the border illegally through Mexico is the biggest problem by far, since it doesn't require swimming an ocean, stowing away on an ocean liner or an airplane, or becoming invisible once landed.....  Without a doubt, the biggest population of illegal residents in American come through Mexico.  Anyone in this country illegally is guilty of breaking the law, period.  In some countries, that alone would be grounds for imprisonment - or even execution.  Be glad America is not one of those countries.....

But surely you are not suggesting that the United States should not only be fine with allowing illegal residents to continue breaking our law/s, but to even be allowed to VOTE in our elections?!

That would be unreasonable and you sound like a reasonable person.  Requiring a photo ID to vote simply PREVENTS any voter fraud.  Unless someone advocates FOR voter fraud, they should not be opposed to this law.

Again, and for the umpteenth time - I should be the poster child for everyone who is AGAINST this law, but I am not.  I am FOR this law, even though I am impoverished, disabled, very ill, and without transportation.  If I can manage to save the $.60 per month over 5 years and find a way downtown to renew my driver's license, then just about anyone else can, too and probably with more help than I have, to tell you the truth.

There are so many programs and organizations now that help the poor, disabled, etc., with these kinds of things that I firmly and adamantly believe that this law is NOT an impediment to anyone who TRULY wants to vote.  I have tried to think of any instance at all in which this would be an obstacle - and the ONLY ones I can think of is 1.  The person is not a legal resident of the state, country, etc., and is not legally able to vote or 2.  The person wants to vote more than once and doesn't want to get caught.

This is so much ado about nothing.  But in this instance, those on the liberal left are behaving irrationally. 
 
I have never been asked to show i.d...once I became a registered voter my name was on the voter registration list in my district...it was mailed to me and I showed up and voted..year after year I have never been asked to show an i.d.....I walked in the door walked up to a table with a worker sitting there, they asked me for my name, I gave it and off to the polling window...

I think what is more dangerous is that many people don't see anything wrong with having to have an i.d. Thousands of women were told they didn't have the intelligence to vote...African-Americans were killed or held to unreasonable conditions that they couldn't possibly qualify for in order to be denied the right to vote...

For those who think that we are in a post-racial time in this country, that is even more insulting and naive...no one is playing the race card...but if we allow ourselves to be intellectualized into believing this is anything other than what it is...then we will only have ourselves to blame in the end...

What type of country is this turning back into is my concern...certainly not one that those of us who have had to fight to be considered human don't want to see happen...

We are not overly sensitive...if someone who is of a certain age has lived in one place most of their life or even those who have moved to assisted living and the like want to vote they should be allowed too..

Because here is my question...I bet you if they died...someone would be able to let the coroner know just who they are...why not have that same ability while they are alive...there is no voter fraud...and if they were taking the rights away from any one else other than those who are mostly minorities, the elderly or students...this would set off have a whole different set of outrage...

I appreciate your words...but this is more than shameful, it is a sin and does nothing for the integrity and character of this country...why now...why not in 2008...there has not been any increase or reasons to cause this sudden concern except the obvious and that is to keep certain people from the polls and to try and stop Obama from re-election...

I pray God that this is exposed as the vicious debacle that it is...because what people don;t understand just like they don't seem to realize that there are more Whites receiving public assistance than people of color is that at the end of the day while they are being fed that if it wasn't for "them" your life would be better off...not realizing that they are throwing their own under the bus because they are relying prejudice, ignorance and the ability to pit one suffering race against another successfully readjusting the rear view mirror away from themselves...

My white people will suffer under these plans and it will be too late to do anything about it...what do people think...that they have a Black food stamp line and a White one? That somehow closing the door on those who can't do anything for themselves will somehow leave more for the "chosen"....divide and conquer is older than dirt....and it is still being used...have we learned nothing...
 
Oh if only Americans were taught their true history....what a different discussion we would be having...shame on any one who places themselves above another human being...and you don;t have to believe me...check the facts...if you dare...ask the immigration courts why it is easier to become an American citizen if you are from anywhere but mexico and other people of color...is the correlation that difficult to understand? 
 
I'm absolutely astounded.  Here I took you at your word when you said you looked at things from both sides and then looked for the truth!  I don't believe you do that at all!  It's plain from your rant that you're one of those people who insist on keeping the race card in play when we should be talking about classism, not racism! 

The issue of requiring a photo ID to vote has nothing to do with whether someone is black, white, pink or purple!  It's about ensuring that no one will vote who is not legally allowed to do so, and to ensure that each individual gets to cast his/her vote - but no more than once.  No one is targeting Mexicans, which you apparently think the Philadelphia law is doing.

I wasn't aware there were that many Mexicans in Philadelphia, but here it is honey, in a nutshell:  Any person who emigrates to another country should be expected to abide by the laws of that country....it is not only hubris but arrogance to come to another country and then tell that country what laws you will or will not comply with!  As an American citizen, I'm insulted by your attitude.  Apparently, you think all immigrants, legal or not, should have the unmitigated right to tell Americans and their government which laws they will obey and which they will not!  If that is your attitude, then please, don't come to America because I think you'll find that most Americans would be insulted that you are so disrespectful of our country's laws.  It sounds to me like you perhaps think that Mexico has some special rights here in America because part of it was once part of Mexico. 

For those of us who have lived in states that have always required a photo id in order to vote, this is just so much crap.  There is nothing on God's green earth that you can say that will sway my opinion that this is not an obstacle except for the lazy and the illegals and the criminals.  For those who want to vote, there are ample programs to help them get photo IDs.  And beyond that, there is always early voting via absentee ballot and for the disabled. 

You don't know what you're talking about, sweetheart.  Your argument/s hold no veracity.
 
Because it is the world we live in...I didn't make it that way and I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe neither did you...but to put our heads in the sand and pretend it is not a major issue in this country is just not fair to those of us both White and people of color who face it and want to do something about it...sorry you find that offensive..
 
Race has nothing to do with it, the fact that Obama has his henchmen led by Eric Holder running all over the country suing state attorney generals right and left to keep them from protecting the borders and the illegals from voting is a clear sign where the issue lies.  And yes liberals play the race card and any other card they find will work to sidestep the real issue.  Oh my god, those haters, they hate these poor unfortunate people.  Meanwhile in Mexico, they laugh at us because of this ridiculous issue and they would never allow such nonsense to go on down there.  Profiling, hell yeah, in every other country there is profiling, but in America its a race issue.  In Mexico show your papers or go to jail.  Nothing to do with race other than the fact that if you look like a foreigner, you probably are and if you happen to be committing a crime and you are a foreigner they know exactly who to look for.
 
I will continue to pray for all of us...
 
Donald its so obvious its also painful to watch...thanks for being a voice
of reason...people are willing to throw themselves under the bus then
accept and help perfect this global interdependent work we live in....and
have since the first ship set sail in search of spices and whatever the
commodity at the time was....
 
Haha, what a joke, what the conservatives want is fairness, and accountablility, it's the left socialist crybabies like you that want to give this country over to people that have no respect for the things that made it great, to elect people who associate with racists, terrorists, with no care for family values or true justice.  Sorry but Donald and Cheri are just grasping at straws trying to twist the truth (which is what liberals do).  You want the government to do everything for you and provide everything for you and protect you and tell you what you can do, how much you can spend, where you can live.  You want the middle class to pay for the poor, the rich to pay even more, yet we all know that the rich are always going to just pass it on down to the middle class.  You want to create entire generations of people dependent on the government and social programs with no expectation to ever move on, its the new plantation that keeps your political leaders in power.  That is what socialism and left thinking has always been about.  People like us will fight you till the day we die to keep the American way of life strong no matter how you try to destroy it.
 
Stephen do your self a favor and go to the library of congress and learn about your country...the "real" truth about your country and "who" made it great...there is nothing sadder than to see so many people try to turn a blind eye using this political party against the other....that is not what either Donald or myself is saying...but stay ignorant to facts, call it socialist all you want...and when you are strong enough for truth it is out there...depending on what you read and I don't get my facts from the media...I research them on my own...you see what is great about this country is that the facts available to those who look for them and neither party has the integrity  or character to be 100% good, there are too many special interests depending on people such as yourself to take your eyes off the ball long enough to continue to be lied too...infighting is just what they want...and they can depend on you to see "color" "political parties" and whatever excuse you need rather than to hold yourself accountable to learning the truth....there is no left thinking or right thinking, there is sensible, common good, holding everyone accountable thinking that you keep seeming to ignore...
 
@Cheri Coleman, I know quite well what and who made this country great Cheri but thanks for the advice I would like to direct it right back at you as by your own words you show yourself to be clearly lacking in understanding and knowledge of the truth.  Possibly you grew up with a twisted sense of reasoning from your parents or maybe your college professors most likely failed to give you and honest perspective of how the world works and exactly what our founding fathers were trying to protect.
 
Stephen...pick up a book and just read...google your opinions and see which ones come back truthfully, I don't have anything to prove, you do...and the founding fathers....well you really have no idea, do you? They did not walk on water, not by a long shoot,90% of the history we were taught in school was watered down at best with all of it leaving out the truth about the contributions of thousands of people who were left out of its history....I dare you to googls Black American inventions...did you know the very stop light that goes from red to green was invented by an African American...did you know the irnon board and the folding chair was one of ours....did you know that plasma that kept WWII soldiers alive was also one of ours and the number of other things you take for granted such as the first street cleaning truck..and I could go on...so please don't lecture me about degrees and professors....none of them told me this I found out on my own....and there is no honor in what was done to colonize this country..the tens of thousands of Chinese men who lost their lives building the railroads....but there are those of us, of all nationalities and races who do want to make it a place of honor and integrity...and to do that we all have to put our dirty laundry on the table and make sure we don't repeat the sins of our past...something you would never consider because it is easier blaming and not being a part of the solution and I am just as ignorant if I continue to try and open up an opportunity for both of us to learn from one another no matter who painful....have a good life...ignorance is bliss...
 
What does all of this have to do with the topic of keeping out illegals from voting, Im not sure where you are going with this and trust me, I take nothing the black Americans have invented for granted but you seem to be on your own little soapbox that always seems to bring it back to a race issue.  

Have a nice life and hopefully you can someday move on from always taking the perspective that everything has to do with hating or race.
 
Stephen if it didn't you wouldn't keep referring backward....you wouldn't act as if only the "conservatives" have the answer, you wouldn't keep making it and "us against them" agenda...you would be asking questions and not pointing fingers....I do not want to focus on what's wrong...there is enough blame to go around no matter what side of the fence you are on....its just that there is and always has been an open agenda against Obama since her took office...and whether you like it or not that is RACIAL...we don;t have to camp there..we can move on if you are willing I certainly am...but as long as I feel pushed into a corner and stereotyped then I am going to fight back...this is how I view my world because I am Black and you could never know what it is like to walk in my shows....as I will never know the true freedom of what it must feel like to walk in yours...now if you want to toss some ideas back and forth and are willing to fact check some things that are being said as will I then we can have that hard discussion and be the change we both always talk about....unless "restoring" America some how means going backwards in which case there was nothing "back" there that I as an African American would want too revisit...that is what I am saying...now can we talk or are we going to perpetuate the crap that is already out there...
 
You need id to buy cigerettes or beer.  Why not to vote?   I once needed a form of indentification that was issued by the state of california.  Easy,  I went down to the DMV and got one.  Not a drivers license but just a ID.  Not sure what is so difficult here. 
 
In California...To apply for an ID card you will need to do the following:

Visit a DMV office  
Complete application form DL 44  
Give a thumb print
Have your picture taken
Provide your social security number.  
Verify your birth date and legal presence  
Pay the application fee. (No fee for a senior citizen ID card.)  
The typical fee is $26 however if on public assistance it is reduced to $7.00.  
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