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2011 Open Source CMS Market Share Report

Have folks had time to review the information from Water and Stone this year? The numbers are always a bit difficult to interpret, of course, but there are many different metrics and this is the fourth year of implementation so disregarding the report, entirely, is unwise.

Some general comments:

- Say what you will about WordPress being "just a blog" and so forth and so on but it is kicking everyone's ass in huge ways. There is WordPress, and then, there are the rest of it. 11 tables, 14mb, free (beer and GPL) plugins installable from within the admin console, a steady release cycle, and a kabillion implementations. We'd all be wise to consider usability and simplicity above anything else. OS/2 didn't make it, Windows did. Think about it.

- Concrete 5 should forget about building an open source CMS and transform the project into an open source marketing enterprise. Kudo's to the project for rallying support with their user communities and getting people to the voting booth. In general, I think Concrete 5 has combined the best of WordPress simplicity with (the mistakes, IMO) proprietary licensing for extensions and this has driven early adoption by users and developers. They will have to pay the piper to straighten out the licensing issues but it can be a good way to jump start a community and the numbers are showing that to be true in the survey.

- In general, overall use of open source CMS's appears to be heading down. I think +Stephen Burge has nailed why -- and it's the easy to use, economical SAAS options available today for business and community websites. Many times, businesses just want a place to hang their shingle without having to pay through the nose or hire technical staff. It's a little concerning to not see a corresponding drop in developer support. If there isn't a good cushion of pent-up demand, it means competition for the job is likely on the rise.

- Books released probably one of the best metrics available to measure interest and potential for growth. Where many numbers are difficult to interpret (ex. are more search results indicative of higher interest? or poor "on property" support and documentation? tough to say.) Books released is a number that comes from corporate decision-making on what might or might not sell. Both Drupal and Joomla had major releases last year and yet Drupal had nearly twice the book releases in 2011. Before jumping to the conclusion that such is a measure only of difficulty, WordPress beat out Drupal by one title. Glad to see Tiki with 6 titles. That is smart software. Take a look at it sometime.

- The power of brand name recognition is undeniable. Drupal, WordPress, and Joomla have a strangle hold on the top three spots and have for several years. It does not mean those are the best options out there, either. Each project was well positioned for growth in 2004-2005 when the wave hit. Other projects will continue to find it very difficult to penetrate the market with message but those who do will have had to work much harder and focus on quality. MODx is a good example of a project that is growing and will continue to advance. Silverstripe is not showing the healthy growth I was hoping to see. I think they have a great product and are innovating in good directions but are likely not getting the message out.

- Joomla and Drupal are loud mouths. Everyone needs to quit bitching about the bitching on Twitter and let folks talk. It's not hurting a thing. Trust me. If the numbers are right, those projects are each beating WordPress with blogging. (/me snickers at the reality of how many are blogging about J and D with WP. )

- The negative sentiment and abandonment ratios should be taken very seriously. Think about it - if a project is not able to garner more than 50% of the hearts and minds of their user community - when they give their product away for free - that's not going to bode well over time. My guess is these numbers are more reflective of how people FEEL about the project than any scientific feature fulfillment measurement. Adopting a zero tolerance attitude towards how THE PROJECT treats its community is essential. Keep the asshats in the back, if you need them. Put your friendly people people, in the front. Trust me on this.

- I believe there are opportunities for projects who are dedicated to collaboration. I think we'll start seeing forks in the three major leaders. In each case, WordPress, Drupal, and Joomla, there are efforts underway to separate the application from the framework. Users might not see projects like Symfony in the rear view mirror, but anyone in the industry worth their salt does. This will create code forks, make no mistake. This will also upset the commercial apple carts in each community. If the community reacts defensively and adopts an isolationist attitude about who is pure enough to continue under the brand flag, then the code fork will lead to community forks, too, and projects will bleed out. Projects with the self-respect and forsight to embrace all collaboration and innovation will experience linux like growth and be in the OS CMS report in four years from now.

Lastly, I cannot help but be seriously impressed with what has transpired in this past five years. This organic community development has spawned from the fact that geeks want to pursue what interests them -- the freedom to chart their own course -- the sense of belonging that comes from community involvement - the leadership of amazing people who somehow were able to get out of the way of their communities while providing gentle nudges of leadership that help unify the group. It's nothing short of amazing and I am proud to have participated.
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60 comments
 
I am surprised by the move by Conde Nast to Concrete5 - and it is entirely marketing driven. There have been rumors they will also use more common "social" CMS (Drupal) but so far they are investing everything into a Java platform when many other brands are migrating the other way.
 
did not think the joomla! analysis was correct. on an international scale, joomla! rocks the kasbah. more accessible than drupal, and definitely more powerful than wordpress
 
[disclaimer: I make a living with Drupal]
Drupal is certainly ascendant with many high-profile sites; it seems to be everywhere: media, publishing, government, education, ecommerce. The project is currently embracing mobile-first methods, adaptive theming, HTML5 and other technologies that will make the next release of Drupal suited for the future of content delivered mostly to mobile devices, as opposed to desktop and laptop computers. I say that "Wordpress is like Drupal's smaller sibling, but Joomla! is the evil cousin" (yes I have worked with all three). #justsaying
 
+Sandra ordonez when you say the analysis was incorrect, can you point at what you believe wasn't a good measure or what measurement strategy was flawed and how it is flawed?

We have very few metrics to measure and contrast our collective efforts. In fact, this is the only data set I know of that even attempts to do so. I think it's worthwhile to help improve this survey by offering constructive criticism that can be incorporated in future surveys.
 
Disclaimer: I'm a Joomla! community member. I find Joomla! much more powerful than wordpress, not to mention that i find wordpress breaks eveyr two seconds. And much more accessible than drupal...the drupal backend is a @#$@# to teach to nontechies. lolol However, lets just agree that atleast drupal and joomla are open source communities, so at least they are better than any proprietary system. lolol
 
+Randall Goya I disagree that we are the evil cousin, but we probably are the "bad boy" you wish your daughter didn't want to date. ;-)
 
At the risk of being labelled one who complains about the complainers I actually think the unconstructive rubbish on twitter is one of the major factors affecting the brand sentiment downwards for Joomla. Couldn't disagree with you more on that Amy ... except for the part about "let people talk" ... to which I'll add in a spirit of respect for differences and similarities alike.

Oh, and I'm proud to be a Joomla loud mouth :)
 
+Amy Stephen +Sandra ordonez I don't want to hijack this post with a Drupal vs Joomla vs Wordpress throwdown. Drupal 7 finally has a dashboard overlay admin and calls posts "articles" so we have learned from the others. (Although many turn off the overlay rather than bother to tweak it.) With thoughtful roles and permissions (try THAT in those other platforms) you can create a meaningful admin without ALL THAT STUFF - and I generally build custom Dashboards tailored for the specific use cases.

Oh and Amy, my daughter's fiancé asked me to help him with Drupal to be a better provider. We have plenty of "bad boys" in the community, come hang out at a global Drupal happy hour in your local tavern.
 
the issues i had were that the report seem to focus on english world. (bilingual/bicultural here) And while yes, I do obviously understand the importance of english world in tech world, its leaving out HUGE parts of the picture. Also, while i agree that page rank has importance, i think looking at search results does not necessarily equate to either brand awareness, since these can be changed by pumping $$ into seo. Additionally, it doesn't really measure the quality of the brand. In other words, in a cms, i want to know if whether techies, production peeps, even online digital marketing peeps, etc, know about you. does that make sense?
 
+Sandra ordonez the way I look at the report is that it should be a discussion starter for leadership planning for the next 12 months. You have to look at everything as "indicative" and with a bit of salt. So, for me the biggies (for Joomla) are the drop in brand sentiment and horrible adoption rates. Now, that o course depends on who filled out the survey, but nonetheless it's something to put in the "very important to look at" box.
 
The adoption rate does concern me. Thats definitely one to investigate. 
 
+Andrew Eddie it would be very helpful to have real data on the impact on end users of what community members say about their projects in a social networking environment. My guess is it's like the tree that falls in the forest with no one around.

Regardless, though, I do not believe the complaining itself creates a bad impression. In fact, it can demonstrate an open community and a lack of fear for being independent and "keeping it real." My sense is that everyone understands conflict is a natural bi-product of any work environment and so much more due to the nature of free software projects.

My guess is any negative impact likely comes from the response. It is my sense that those communities best able to respond by listening and hearing and then pulling together to solve problems create a compelling and attractive message about involvement. Helping build that into a community that is not accustomed to responding in that manner will take effort and leadership.
 
Since I am already a "Drupal loudmouth" I have one more comment to add: the "blog" content type has been dropped in (not yet released) Drupal 8 core since it was not a very good way to create blogs, compared with Wordpress, for example, and most Drupalers already create custom content types and views for blogs anyway.
 
Thanks +Sandra ordonez - appreciate those points. Given your industry knowledge and experience, I'd certainly encourage you to reach out to Water & Stone to help build improvements.
 
I was going to post a little about the survey on my blog Tuesday or Wednesday and likely more generalized than a reaction piece (I like your thoughts Amy). Amy, I'm just curious...did you post your comments elsewhere or just on Google+?
 
+Amy Stephen the damage done is proportional to the square of the distance from the contributors. One off twitter rants aren't going to make much of a difference to Joomla users in general. However, they can have a devastating impact on your individual contributors and teams. You say "Adopting a zero tolerance attitude towards how THE PROJECT treats its community is essential", but what's sadly lacking from this statement is self-relfection and the balance of the responsibility of people towards those most closely involved in the project (ie, the case of "the establishment is always under suspicion"). As for evidence, I could cite instances where taking a zero tolerance attitude towards indignant individuals had an immediate and dramatic positive influence on the morale of volunteers, which obviously has many knock on effects. The reality is in projects of the sizes we are talking about, there are going to be small groups of people that just don't fit in and they present a challenge to contributors that just want to have fun. That all said, in Joomla's case, I think the "bad" times are well and truly over, baring some odd spot fires here and there (not unreasonable, and completely manageable), but I think the report reflects the wake of a pretty bad couple of years prior to this one.
 
Joomla is doing great things one the one hand and on the other not. Proly the best on many aspects but has to change its ways on dealing w volunteers, a lot leave or simply do not get in. That is quite sad. Too many rules are simply putting barriers, too much control likewise... Cms's are (or should be)reinventing themselves, the web is moving fast. Devs are good but the rest should be as good too...
 
+Marcos Peebles are you saying volunteers (JBS people, etc) are leaving because of rules or "users" or resources (like the JED or JPeople)?
 
+Andrew Eddie My comments were not pointed towards any specific project and I was speaking generically about a strategy to address negative sentiment and abandonment ratios. I definitely agree with you that it is important not to discourage contributors. I also agree with +Marcos Peebles that it's important to (always) make it easier for new folks to join in. But, I avoided direct comment about the Joomla for a reason since I don't see it as particularly constructive to take this data which has an unknown statistical value and use it to make some sort of statement on the state of any project.

Now, at some point, Andrew, we all have to learn to forgive and forget, modeling that is also important. Any group is going to lose contributors and it's important for us to recognize it's not typically because people didn't fit in. Sometimes, we just fail one another. We just blow it. There have been many times I failed you, too, Andrew, and I am sorry for that. I don't believe anyone intends to discourage someone else but I agree self-reflection and a willingness for each of us to see ourselves in the problem is key.
 
Regarding the number of books for Joomla vs. Drupal/WP: this does not surprise me in the slightest in 2011.

It takes at least 6 months to bring a book to market. In broad steps, that includes:

- finding an author, soliciting a proposal, going around with changes on that, and signing a contract
- the author drafts the book
- the revision process, which in my experience, included 3 editors (tech editor, grammar and spelling editor, and the overall flow of the book editor)
- sending the book to print, then waiting for it to hit the shelves (this is often 6 weeks to 2 months here)

When Joomla 1.6 was announced, publishers rushed to get writers under contract. I was talking with publishers about a Joomla 1.6 book in 2009... and the Joomla 1.6 release occurred 18 months after that.

My second book was supposed to be a 1.6 book, but we made it a 1.5 book when it was still unclear when Joomla 1.6 would be released.

Joomla 1.6 changed its interface until literally hours before launch. This meant those who did try to write a Joomla 1.6 book to coincide with the Joomla 1.6 release wound up being burned, because their book contained screenshots from beta screens that didn't exist in the final product.

Once Joomla 1.6 was released, and more people became aware of the new release cycle, there was no one I knew in the publishing industry who believed that Joomla 1.7 would be released on time. (Indeed, there were very few in the Joomla community who believed this!) Given Joomla's history, it simply didn't seem like Joomla could achieve a 6 month release cycle.

What's more, until the leadership summit in July, it was unclear what a 6 month release cycle meant for Joomla. Would there be a new admin template every 6 months? If that was the case, then there would likely never be another book written on Joomla again. There simply wouldn't be time. Even if the interface was stable in beta, it still meant the book would have a very short shelf life before the next version of Joomla replaced it.

Now that the leadership has established that:

- the three-release cycle is defined better (short-short-long, x.0, x.1, x.5)
- version numbers will finally make sense starting in July 2012
- admin templates change at the start of ever X.0 release cycle only
- there's a track record of one successful 6 month release with Joomla 1.7 (and we're on track for 2.5)
- one-click upgrades did indeed come to pass

Perhaps publishers will again be interested in publishing Joomla books, particularly after a few releases and Joomla proves that it's stabilized with its new plans.

I know that Joomla insiders will say that of course Joomla has stabilized and it's of course doing what it said it would do all along. Remember, however, that there was a lot of upheaval in the Joomla community in 2011 in regards to versions, releases, changes in leadership, and more. Concepts we consider defined now were not defined so well just 6 months ago.

Publishing books is a financial investment for a publisher up front. Joomla has to earn the trust of those publishers in order for the publishers to see Joomla as worthy of investing in. They too are watching sales of Joomla books vs. Drupal/WP -- as well as other topics (think Linux, mobile, programming languages, etc).

If the sales aren't strong for Joomla books, and if Joomla looks like it's restructuring and redefining its direction (which it did this last year), and if it's unclear how long a version of Joomla is going to be good for vs. the publishing cycle -- well, books on Joomla simply won't be published.
 
@Andrew, yes, but that is only a partial explanation. I think mor then "leaving" is just ... not joining. I also agree with Amy when she says people leave and that is normal in any project, life goes on.

I also second very much what you say Steve. CMS's are (must) re-invent themselves and the biggest threat comes from SAAS (which often comes with proprietary software but not always, see transifex for example). The jplatform is a move, but we (as joomla) should really and also focus on what made it succesfull (easyness of use, great community, languages, great code...) in order to keep the edge and aknowledge some of the points made by the report very carefully. I also see that (my) clients do not understand why they have to repay 1 year later almost the same price just to upgrade the site. I do not blame joomla on this (most of the sites are heavily customised with at least extensions), I am just worried about how companies have to explain over and over again that no one is to blame, that the web is moving fast, etc. From my experience a typical site stays around 3 and 5 years before a major change. Joomla has now "fixed" it with "1 click" upgrades, but the damage is done with 1.5 to xxx. Just thoughts, no solutions I confess. Cheers
 
I don't see SaaS or PaaS as a threat to open source CMS...the change in the marketplace is actually an opportunity for open source to have a future. SaaS is an evolution for current web development practices and it's up to each open source project to decide if they are going to adapt to the changes or not. Two examples of companies that "get this" includes Accrisoft (proprietary) and Acquia (open source): http://cmsreport.com/blog/2011/more-introduction-accrisoft . There are of course some Joomla companies that get this too.

By the way, anyone see the irony of using Google+ to talk about open source projects? I've been thinking of what the future role blogs will have have in the following years and whether there is a need to keep old stale CMS supporting my blogs around. This is not a knock of open source CMS but just a fact of life...do we really need a hosted CMS site anymore for personal blogging?
 
+Stephen Burge yes, my trademarked self-contradictions are annoying aren't they. :) My point though is that SaaS and PaaS is only a threat to those open source projects that aren't willing to change/evolve with the marketplace. For those projects that are capable of adapting...it offers opportunity and growth. Perhaps it is not longer in the interest of open source CMS to concentrate solely on blogging and "simple sites"...the market needs are much bigger than that.
 
+Stephen Burge What I hear +Bryan Ruby saying is that SaaS offers open source contributors another avenue for revenue generation and thus can also be helpful to an open source community. Even if most design shops don't have the deep pockets of an Acquia or Automattic, offering hosted solutions on smaller scales is still a good possible revenue stream to pursue. With phing and Maven and the like, it's getting pretty easy to automate vertical market site builds and then offer those to paying customers.

Both points are true. The reality of the market place is that as things advance, products evolve into commodities and that's exactly what is happening with SaaS solutions. Like it or not, the ultimate winners are likely your GoDaddy's of the world, rather than the Acquia and Automattic's founders have established and, yes, it does steal away business opportunity from communities.
 
Yep, SaaS is the future and that's why there's a line item for a web services layer on the #Joomla Platform roadmap :) I'd go so far as to say the Joomla CMS itself to run completely off that WSL - throw in unified content and we have some unbelievably interesting opportunities to explore in 2012 (won't be the end of the world on my watch if I can help it, ha!).
 
+Jen Kramer I actually don't think that's the real reason there's a big delta in the books (but I accept you and others didn't believe we'd make 1.7 happen - very happy to disappoint, hehe). The release cycle was heavily advertise in the October before the January release, I've been talking about it all year and the October announcement was a clarification, not a big change (although, you'd have to agree, the new approach is much better for book writers).

The reason for the book stats, I think, has more to do with the other projects catching up and there being a lot of room for growth. Also, the long release cycle of 1.5 meant you could only write so many books so I think that is a factor as well. Another factor is the free but sponsored (sponsor a chapter) books that are popping up - they will potentially have an effect on the viability of book writers as well.

Well, anyway, that's just my opinion.
 
+Andrew Eddie And yet, Drupal had the same long release cycle and twice the titles. When I look at Barnes and Noble or online at Amazon, I definitely see an abundance of WordPress books, and many, many Drupal books. It's the Joomla titles seem to be lagging, especially for new releases, and most certainly in the developer area. I think we were fortunate that +Hagen Graf wrote a downloadable book for 1.6 (and now 1.7) since there were no other titles available. What I see IRL seems to correlate with the data in this report.
 
Andrew -- not being involved in leadership or development, I did not hear much of anything about the new release cycle until after the 1.6 launch. To this day, when I travel to Joomla Day events or do teaching, people who are not closely tied to the project in some way, as you and I are, still have not heard about the release cycle. It's hard to find from joomla.org (it's buried in the developer site, unless it was moved in the recent redesign).

I agree that other projects have caught up, that there's room for growth, and the long cycle of 1.5 played a role in book decline. I'm also curious about the impact of free books, but I think that has less impact that you'd expect.

If you look at videos, there are a bazillion free Joomla training videos on most anything at YouTube. Yet lynda.com, osTraining, Joomla University, and The Art of Joomla continue to make money on their videos. Why? People are still willing to pay for quality, and I'd argue that not many sales are lost to "free". The people who get the free book are the ones who would just ask a thousand questions on the forum in the absence of a free book.

Incidentally, for all of those wondering: one does not make much money writing a book. In fact, I make way less writing a book than I would doing website work. I think of it as marketing that I get paid for. Plus I really love writing about Joomla, which is the best motivation of all.

PS -- I am very, very happy that Joomla released 1.7 on time and keeping the promise about one-click updates. I am thrilled it worked out the way it was supposed to!
 
+Amy Stephen my memory of past W&S reports is that Joomla always had way more books than anyone else (if my understanding is right, Drupal has always had a better culture for community documentation so books where not as necessary, and there are a few other reasons). I think everyone else has just jumped on the bandwagon since we were doing so well. My prediction is the delta will remain tight from now on. I haven't looked at books for individual versions, and from that you could probably draw other conclusions.
 
Looking at the report, again, I would have to agree with you +Andrew Eddie , it does look like Drupal was catching up with Joomla on title count.
 
+Jen Kramer add to that you make stuff all out of dev. videos for the time you put in :) (I think it's tracking at about 1-4 hours per minute depending on the complexity of the lesson). They are very much a labour of love (and I just dropped my prices for Christmas, shameless plug, hehe).

+Amy Stephen yeah, look, we could be dragging the chain overall, I just think it's a bit early to tell (and I'm happy to be told so in hindsight). There's certainly great opportunity for new content with 2.5 coming (the last LTS), and the platform but as Jen says, it's a heluva lot of work to put this material together.
 
Yes Andrew, video done well is time intensive also. And like you, I love doing it. :-)
 
+Stephen Burge I know that I am approached up to 20 times a day for potential Drupal work, less for plain PHP dev, much less for Wordpress and rarely for Joomla, but that could be due to my LinkedIn profile, portfolio etc. presenting my core skills as a Drupaler. I am not aware of any large "Enterprise" sites using Joomla, and I have a browser plugin that lists the frameworks used on sites as I browse. Regarding SASS, Drupal Gardens fills a need for hosted and maintained Drupal 7 sites, much like wordpress.com but Drupal-lier. And I have used Drupal increasingly as a CMF Content Management Framework to build web apps with sophisticated web services and connections to other platforms such as Wordpress to push content to network sites. Drupal does not match every use case but it is sophisticated enough to build applications hooked into web services and also suited for creating organic communities of users who can form their own groups and relations, or handle ecommerce and social commerce (think Groupon-like), while still providing the standard CMS functions or blogging with killer SEO and SMO features. All that plus support for mobile via the community and mobile-first mandated for the next release makes Drupal a good choice now and for future extensibility.
 
+Jen Kramer I agree that forum visitors like the free books (as all people like free things) but I don't think that quality has something to do with price of a book/medium. The only question is how to find a business model for the author. But maybe I am a bit ahead, let's wait a few years :)
I think the reason why people pay for a dvd's is that they are lost trying to navigate in 1,000 youtube videos and are willing to pay for a structure. It is the same with my german video trainings. I started free screencasts on Joomla! in 2011 too in the same way/structure I record DVDs and people like them.
 
+Amy Stephen thank you for mentioning the book. I am trying to spread it as wide as possible. I wrote a module so that you can install it on your Joomla! website like +Brian Teeman http://brian.teeman.net and a few others did (http://cocoate.com/2011/11/12/book-feeds-joomla-module). The Beginner's Guide is now translated in several languages and more and more people start helping me. Remember, there is a world beside the English language and the US market. At the moment I am writing a developers guide and I can see how hard it is to understand the wonderful theoretical concepts of Joomla! CMS and Platform if you have to figure out how it works in a real world with real customers ...
 
Does anyone know what the downloads number represents? Is it downloads of the full source? Or does it include downloads of upgrades, too? Is it for all supported releases? Or, just the current release? Seems like lumping that number into one might produce misleading numbers.

Would love to see an independent group develop some well defined, reliable metrics and data collection processes.
 
+Stephen Burge Isolating in that manner at least helps build a more meaningful metric. Right or wrong, it also helps explain why the number is so low for Joomla and Drupal - if previous versions aren't involved. But, the benefit would go to the project that has a single release strategy.

Do you know if it's full downloads versus upgrade numbers?
 
Appreciate his efforts, if he hangs in there with it, works with the various projects, the numbers will just get better. Thanks +Stephen Burge
 
I think we'd be better publishing our own download stats in a consistent format. I don't think comparing downloads between CMS's is relevant anymore, but seeing the trends within our own data would be far more useful. Good thing I work for a company that loves analytics :)
 
+Amy Stephen +Bryan Ruby (Google+ app for Android breaks the + tags when editing) as I recall Drupal won "Best Open Source CMS" so many times that Packt moved it into the "Hall of Fame" category to allow other CMS platforms to have a chance.
 
+Randall Goya Goodness! lol! If you click the link above that lists the years of the contest and the winners, you'll see Drupal won "Best Open Source CMS" twice. To be certain, Joomla and Drupal were eligible for the title four time and each one twice.
 
+Amy Stephen precisely; after winning BOSCMS two years in a row, Packt moved Drupal to the CMSHOF category
 
+Randall Goya Perhaps you could share a link where PackT states that they reconfigured the contest because Drupal was guaranteed to win each year? If it were the case that Drupal was automatically guaranteed a win if it were allowed to compete for the title, then can you explain why Joomla won this year instead of Drupal? The fact is Drupal and Joomla were both eligible to compete for the title four times and each won twice.
 
+Amy Stephen Drupal was moved from the "Open Source CMS" to "Best Open Source CMS" and "Hall of Fame" categories, and Packt added a "Drupal Award" category for Drupal projects (modules and themes) in 2009 http://drupal.org/node/605762 (so my OP about being removed from BOSCMS was inaccurate)

According to http://www.packtpub.com/article/open-source-awards-previous-winners (this page does not display for me in FF 7.0.1 I can open it in IE9)

Wordpress won Hall Of Fame CMS Award in 2010; Drupal came in 2nd and Joomla! was 3rd
Wordpress was "Overall Winner" in 2010 - (Drupal was excluded from this category)

Drupal won Hall Of Fame CMS Award in 2009; Joomla! was 2nd
Drupal won BOSCMS in 2009, Wordpress came in 2nd

Drupal was Overall Winner in 2008; Joomla was 2nd and DotNetNuke was 3rd

Drupal won BOSCMS in 2008, Joomla! and CMS Made Simple tied for 2nd

Joomla! won BOSCMS in 2007, Drupal came in 2nd
Drupal was the "Overall Winner" in 2007, Joomla! came in 2nd

(Wordpress did not appeat in 2007 results)

Oh, and the Packt site runs on Drupal ;)
 
Still not quite correct, +Randall Goya In the fourth year, the "Hall of Fame" category was opened and previous recipients of the "Best Open Source CMS" (Drupal and Joomla) were moved into that category and no longer eligible for competing for the overall title. That year, WordPress won "Best Open Source CMS" and the next year, WordPress joined Drupal and Joomla in the "Hall of Fame" category. This year, PackT removed the "Hall of Fame" category and allowed Joomla, Drupal, and WordPress to again compete for the "Best Open Source CMS." And, of course, this year Joomla was awarded the title the second time.

Again, the fact remains that both Joomla and Drupal have been eligible for the "Best Open Source CMS" four times and each won twice. What that means is subject to debate, but what is not debatable is that both have competed for the title the same number of times and both have won equally.

It is correct that PackT runs on Drupal, as does Water and Stone. However, I am confident that preference did not bias either evaluation.
 
+Amy Stephen sorry. my edit was posted after your reply - the results clearly show Drupal predominant over Joomla!, which also has impressive support
 
OK. But, if you are proposing PackT Awards are a good indicator of which CMS to use, then +Randall Goya you are also recommending those looking for a CMS today go with Joomla since it's the one wearing the crown this year. Do you see how nonconstructive that type of conclusion is? It's very clear you do not feel that way, and that's cool and groovy, I respect that.

For me, the Water and Stone report is beneficial because it allows us to look at the impact of collective social and technical decisions and actions of a community so that we might better determine what works and what should be avoided. I know others see this differently, but I do not see our projects as primarily competing, nor do I believe one is better than the other. I do believe those who keep eyes wide open can learn from the other and help their own projects advance. In doing so, they help others who are open to learning to do the same.

To be honest, I am more and more inclined to ignore the top three since there's a lot of gold in the projects below the board leaders. I think we are insensitive to those communities and their accomplishments when we are overly focused on the strength of name recognition. The past few days, I have been looking at Concrete 5. Don't care for the data model but there are things about the UI that are compelling.
 
+Amy Stephen It's not just who is the current winner, there is a notable trend favoring Drupal over Joomla; also notable for absence of Joomla (or Wordpress, or any other PHP CMS) in these 2011 categories:

Best Open Source CMS for Performance: Drupal
Best .NET Open Source CMS: DotNetNuke
Best CMS for Best Community: Drupal
Best CMS for Ease of Use: Drupal
 
+Amy Stephen all I was saying, at the beginning of this Packt stuff, was that after winning the Open Source CMS award 2 years in a row, Packt removed Drupal from that category to allow others to compete
 
+Randall Goya And, that trend favoring Drupal over Joomla ended this year when Joomla was again named PackT 2011 Best Open Source CMS. Good luck next year. =)
 
+Amy Stephen A trend is not defined by a single piece of data (Statistics 101) ; that's why I stated the "current winner" does not reverse the trend over the past few years, nor the dominance of Drupal in the subcategories. And I'll say again, my preference for Drupal is neither dogmatic nor happenstance (that I happened to use Drupal and not the others). I have used Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress, and a few other platforms, and my preference is based on my personal experience in areas of architecture, performance, security, ease of use/extensibility (for complex functions), community, and also, employment opportunities.

I respect +Amy Stephen and others who don't have a favorite, but for me, in the trenches, Drupal is the platform of choice for Enterprise and Community sites, and Drupal gets it done. I have been using Drupal less as a "typical" CMS, and more as a Content Management Framework to create web applications, which also happen to have a content component.
 
+Randall Goya we've all got our own preference based on our own personal experiences and most in this thread also have experiences that cross CMS'es. The focus of this discussion is reviewing a specific study that attempts to go beyond the personal experience by looking more broadly at metrics and how the various projects measure up to those criteria. BTW - I did not say I didn't have a personal preference. I just tried to not bring it into this discussion in hopes of encouraging a non-partisan discussion. Does that make sense?
 
lol - it's okay. Peace always. :)
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