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Interesting quote. Here's a rhetorical question: How many steps removed is what you do for a living from actually making something and/or doing something productive, like providing services directly?  Advertising people, lawyers, and middle-management do not count as being valid occupations, according to this measurement.  Car mechanics, tech-support weenies (like me), engineers, doctors - we all count.
 
Productivity is an empty measure. May as well ask, how many shells is it worth.
 
This assumes people are generally good and will create good things with ample free time. The truth is pretty far from this mans delusion.
 
+James Higgs I'm not sure what I'd be doing if I didn't have to work to 'earn a living', but I'm not positive it would be altruistic.
 
I say we all work 20 hours a week. Employment crisis solved!
 
Who gets to decide who has to work or go to school and who gets to be a lazy bum?
 
Some of us are lucky enough to "think about whatever..." and make a living at it. In other words, I love being a scientist and wouldn't trade this occupation for a mindless job paying 10x more.
 
I envision myself working toward a similar goal, robert, but I have had the benefit of a life working hard for what I want, respect for the things I have and for others in my life.  if you take a child and bring them into the world, tell them they will get a certain amount of money to pay their bills every month because that 1 in 10,000 person invented some widget, do you think he will want to do anything other than screw his girl friend and play video games?  maybe in a perfect world where people actually parent their children it would work out, but with todays majority, I see a miserable failure.
 
oh wierd, I just realised I missed the NOT positive in your post, I thought you were saying you were positive it would be altruistic.
 
It is thinking like this that leads to a sense of entitlement among our youth, who shrug off meaningful employment that would give them the real world experience needed to innovate the very technological advance you mention. Not to mention the excuse for lots of unemployed twenty-somethings living ay home with their parents, waiting to dream up the next great thing.
 
This guy was a nutcase.  Sort of reminds me of Hitler who had a similar obsession with architecture.
 
Yeah and how many people do you know that ever heard of fuller
 
Like to know where he pulled the 10k number from...
 
+Jay Porta If you were not drudging away all day slaving... you would be able to give all the parental guidance in the world to your daughter and actually spend some time with her, no? I guess the brain washing that we all should slave 40-60 hours per week getting NOWHERE, has really been successful in your case....lol?
 
+Dan O'Brien Well put my man, well put. You mean you aren't one of the one's who accept that we should all drudge away in slavery 40-60 hours per week...basically 75% of our entire lives here on earth? What!!!! YOU DON'T ACCEPT THIS FACT????!!! WE WILL HAVE TO SEND YOU BACK FOR RE_PROGRAMMING IMMEDIATELY!!!! Guards!!!!!
 
Who is going to pay for my house if I don't work? Idealism is so outdated.
 
that 1 in 10,000 guy that invented the widget will pay for your house.  after all, he had the great idea to make millions, why should he get to keep those millions, he should be made to give it to you and 9,999 other people so they can be free from drudgery to live to their full potential.  its a wonderful land full of adventure, with pixies and lost boys and pirates!  it will all make sense in the end, just ask obama!
 
He says people should go back to school and think what they were thinking before someone told them they had to earn a living. Who's going to do the teaching? The teachers all quit to spend time thinking!
 
You have to work,because it states so in the Bible,and the paragraph reads; man,will work by the sweat of his face,or he will not eat bread,so if we teach our kids not to work,then we are breaking God's basic law of our Existance here on earth,if you think something different,then take a trip to Africa,and see how people have given up working and just sit down and wait to die,'By Starvation',one can smell the people diying from more than ten miles away,I saw plenty of this sort of thing in the militery,so I have seen it all,first hand,also, it is our human right to work until the end,that is what I believe,!!!???
 
what a completely stupid idea.
 
Perhas it is,with all the TAX money being Stolen from us and there is nothing we can do to get it back,then it looks that way,be carefull out there,!!!
Mark C
 
+Maxwell Smart you make me LOL. Of all the stupidest explanations for why we should should work you've outshone anyone else who will participate in this conversation.
 
Fuller was a brilliant man, but failed to understand that he was one of the "1 in ten thousand" and that the other 9,999 would just leech off the 1 no matter the system you invent. The 1 succeeds because he/she has a vision and drive to make it succeed. The 9,999 read this and think, "yeah, I shouldn't have to contribute to the betterment of society" rather than his actual point that the "system" of creating middle management (a rampant trend in the 60s and 70s) has a tendancy to stifle creativity and thinking outside the box.
 
+Tony Cave that is exactly what he is saying. I think a lot of people have misunderstood the future that Fuller envisaged. We wouldn't all be sitting around in our pants playing XBox. I would suggest people take a look at this for more detail: I LOST MY JOB The Star Trek quote at the end is also quite pertinent.
 
Those poor people have no jobs ,and most are too malnutritioned to work if they could. At least we can pity them instead of mocking them. Also the bible states that man wull work by the sweat fo his brow.Seems that that has come true in most cases.
 
The quote is a basic outline for a communist type state where people do what they are good at, and the state provides for everyone.

Just like in Star Trek :D
 
+Maxwell Smart Any argument citing religion immediately invalidates itself as being completely absurd.
 
Everybody ought to do something, even if it's wrong, and it usually is.
 
Said the lazy man who believes he is entitled to another man's labor.
 
Barter system anyone? Everyone working, goods & services exchanged.
 
Fuller seems to ignore the self-respect that comes from a good day's honest work. 

 And I'm not sure what he means that the 1 in ten thousand can support the rest.    That's ridiculous on every level.
 
Josh Mckibbon, OK,does that exonerate all the deliberate theft and Stealing scams that our western society has come up with for the last millenium or so,also,this is not a religious belief,it is christianity,so if you do not believe, then you will only have your type of 'Interpretation' for anything stated in the Bible as being trythfull,Unfortunately or me,is that I can not Prove it right now,but the time is near when many things will be proven beyond anything we have known,have fun too,!!!
 
This is totally disrespectful for all the working people. I don't agree with it. While going back to school and trying to invent is good, nobody going to give you food for free. People can still do both work and invent by improvising the work you are doing. 
 
its a good thing he is dead.... small minded people think small mindedly... is all i have to say
 
Less than 20% of people who are employed produce anything, the rest of the jobs are in the service sector. This is caused by technological unemployment which is the root of this quotes meaning. If we can automate most of the production for goods then we are only working to facilitate a cycle of consumption. You don't pay for pipes, roads, electric lines, you pay for maintenance and not in any meaningful way. If you think the system we have for providing life providing goods and services to people is working, enjoy slavery and ignorance. If you know something isn't working, if you understand there are technical solutions to starvation, homelessness, disease and a lack of education and the barrier is our economy and currency. Please watch this TEDxOjai - Peter Joseph - The Big Question [ The Zeitgeist Movement ] . Btw, both our economic model and currency trading are based on opinion and not natural law or science so hoping they will work... well you can see the results around you everyday.
 
+Giles Pettipher Not quite. There is no mention of 'State' in the quote. And the Communist ideal was about equality of the workers and the sharing of material wealth. The quote is about people being free from work and material wealth - a completely different ideal.
 
Actually earning a living gives a bit of purpose. Without it or something to supplement it, we waste away and fall into depression. Same thing happens to dogs and apes when they're introduced into an environment where they don't have much to do.
 
I am looking for a job not just because I am broke, but because I want something to do!
 
Love that quote then turn around and bitch about people living a better life than you.
 
I'm glad he is no longer around. Continue to RIP.
 
Here, let me lay this stupid idea to rest.

I put hours of my time into inventing a new technology. Now you just want me to give it to you?
And if I don't?
Are you going to take it by force?
If no, then many will become envious. If yes, then there is no motivation to create, only consume.

Then translate this from tech to housing and other basic services.

See, I don't want to be the same as everyone else.
 
Bucky Fuller definitely wasn't anti-work.  He worked his tail off most of his life, to the point that he invented a new sleeping method for himself where he slept 20-30 minutes every 4 hours or so for the last half of his life so he could work more.  This quote sounds like communism, but it was really about the power of encouraging intelligent minds to innovate, not work on Henry Ford-type production line drudgery, which he saw as a waste of life and talent.  This quote seems to be about favoring productivity over time units of work. 
 
+Jeremy Evans And what does a good honest days work entail exactly? And for what purpose? To earn money? And yet we think it's perfectly fair for one guy who works his ass off in two jobs to get paid minimum wage and yet another to get paid 10 times as much for coasting along. What's 'honest' about that?
 
@ Maxwell The bible also says "look to the raven he neither reaps nor sows and God provides for him"

 
Dead  Dude   Ha  Ha    Where  He  Belongs
 
Alexander (+Alexander JC), I studied under Buckminster Fuller, in Lawson Hall, at Southern Illinois University, and this ... "'diatribe' in absentia" ... is "'con'veniently" out of context. Regards, Randy 
 
you can do what you want but you can't affend me.
 
+James Murphy I agree the "State" isn't specifically mentioned, but some organized method for redistribution is implied in the quote.
If you define "Wealth" in it's most basic form, it's just the ability to get stuff. A man who has no money but gets everything he asks for is essentially wealthier that a man who has billions of dollars but can't spend any of it. The actually form of the currency is irrelevant. 
 
My thoughts exactly! (Like the noose with the suit.) I say, "Flip Flops For All!" 
 
It took 45,000 scientists to build the atom bomb. The Allies were determined to build a weapon that would end the war. They had the minds to build it and the resources to achieve it. Money was no object. The result was an amazing achievement for science and a tragic moment for humanity. If we have the minds today to solve the problems the world now faces, and the resources to achieve it, why are we letting 'money' prevent us from solving our problems?
 
+Devin Christensen You're totally right -- Ford's assembly line was one of the greatest inventions of all time.  I think Fuller's comment was about a systemic mentality that he felt didn't reward innovation, and he wondered why people lined up to go work on production lines.  I would venture to guess that he admired Ford's innovation and determination to make it a reality.  He just didn't like the the fact that humans so readily lined up to work like automatons when we could all be inventors...just like Fuller!  'course there'd be nobody to do the work...
 
Any money system is existing to pull people apart into class systems so there can be rich and poor
 
@cloe Jennings that actually implies one doesn't have to_worry_ about anything. Doesn't mean it doesn't have to find food. 
 
The real question provoked by such insidious nonsense is this : will that man (one in ten thousand) have the incentive or the desire to decide the aforementioned technological breakthrough? The reason we have become the wonderful nation that we are, bustling with diversity and ingenuity, is we have incentivised hard work and fresh ideas. The motivated and the risk takers will be rewarded. If a man uses his only dollar to buy a cow, he shouldn't be asked to feed the family who used their dollars for a flat screen TV and / or crack.
 
Thats a wonderful ideal. However The real world is pay the bills or you will be out living under a bridge. Earning a living is supporting yourself and your genes. The lion wakes up in the morning and hunts to survive. We might think ourselves Superior and yes we are ,However The lion and man have to survive in this world. That is a fact.
 
Hes a rich man who has time to feed the rest of us his lovely ideals.
 
This is pure drivel. History has shown time and time again that this kind of a culture always fails. At some point, the workers get tired of supporting the non-workers.

The objective is to find work that you enjoy. Better yet, find joy in the work you do. 
 
Interesting quote. Hmmm... Not many people will understand it though. I already saw someone reply "what will people do with all that free time". Talk about missing the boat.
 
Enjoy your work to enjoy the life afforded by it. Be a good example and a leader. Be what you want but if we expect a "fair " world and economic justice, we all will enjoy famine and poverty. Simple.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Zee Ter
 
Fact is, only about 1% of the herd can break free....
 
+Giles Pettipher wealth is not the issue here. Communism strove for equality of workers but not their betterment. The ideal was to have jobs for everyone and for them to remain there. The 'wealth' this society generated was then to be evenly distributed. This quote is saying that we should look to the betterment of society and continually try to improve it and ourselves. We need to recalibrate what the society values; we shouldn't seek value in things and accumulating them but from each other and the improvement of ourselves.
 
A remarkable stream of the kind of mooing and lowing you'd expect from cattle (or sheeple) - in a post scarcity society, no one has to work FOR ANOTHER - each individual has the option to work - but since technology is fully capable of providing every essential thing to every person, "working" in the sense of doing task for money to buy essential things is meaningless - you may chose to work for other people, but it will progressively become a choice, not an expectation or societal norm- I'm working to reduce my expenses to be only taxes - a greenhouse provides 60% of all my groceries, in the next year, my bio-diesel system will provide most of my fuel - most of my livestocks' food comes from a fodder system, I melt and cast aluminum for pumps for my greenhouse....
I'm "unemployed" yet I get up at 6 am and often work past midnight - because I'm excited about building new things - not because I "have to"
for all those of you who think Bucky was a complete fool have much to learn or read this for a simplified model:  http://www.troynovant.com/Grube/Hogan/Voyage-from-Yesteryear.html
 
Those of us who have been accused of paranoid delusions need to think a bit deeper. No one wants a feudal class system with proletariat peasant class and the rich basking in their ill gotten gains. I don't know why people and politicians struggle with this. It is not possible to have a country with hundreds of millions of people all riding on the backs of the few. People are generally lazy and weak. We need a goal, some reason to go to work each day. Sure we can print money and give an equal share to every man woman and child in the u.s.a. When it is gone we will have no one to clean toilets, mend the wounded, plow fields or anything. Our credit on the world will be ruined and will lead to war on a global scale like we have never seen.
 
If you replaced all the people working with the machines that could do their jobs (which have already been invented) the economy would collapse because there wouldn't be enough employed people to buy enough stuff to keep the businesses making profit. This is the only reason your jobs aren't already automated, so that people with money can exert control over a lower class.
 
I agree. We have come so far as to have most of our basic survival needs met. We have the time now thanks to all the great minds, to be able to think  about more than our basic survival. We are enjoying it right this instance with this wonderful computer. We common folks now have the time to think and explore thanks to the great minds that created this wonderful technology. We have to be grateful. 
 
+Mark Prasek history has never had an example, all the previous attempts were co-opted by capitalism or use currency instead of technology to manage production. Also not everyone has access to the resources to "find work they love or love the work they do" thats like saying working in a mcdonalds should be satisfying if you could just look at it through the right lens. That is nonsense.
 
+Lawrence Klamecki how many people do you see working on a production line now?? Bar the technicians who maintain the machines, it's a small fraction of what was required in Ford's assembly line. And how ling until they are replaced by nachines?? The concept of 'workers' in this instance is flawed because their need in the process to build a car is diminishing.
 
The comments in this post exemplify the inability of the herd to do anything but work for someone else. The 1 of 10,000 is the thinking man, while the 9,999 are the ones waiting around for their next job assignment. Some people just don't want to think, and they are the ones holding back an idea like this.
 
If I could earn a living as a philosopher, I would do it, but since that is not viable, I will maintain my professional career.
 
There can be no worse fate than wasting your life while working for money. "Life" is for the animals, while a human is a thinking being - his purpose is to learn, not to "live".
 
If each individual could have inventive, productive thoughts and were motivated to have them, this theory could be effective, BUT still each person has a seed of selfishness. Each person has imperfections that no human evaluating scheme could completely or effectively identify, let alone compensate for.

He's made the argument that there are many pointless jobs that suck up money, and many more pointless jobs in the government and large businesses that suck up money. There will always be loopholes in any human-made system and there will always be people to take advantage of those loopholes. This is a problem that cannot be fixed

If we had a government that identified smart, skeptical, and truly altruistic people and gave them power to change the world, then even though the world would still be inherently flawed, it would become a better place.

If only it were humanly possible.
 
Someone look back to the start of recorded history. Find a system where people flourished as well as we have in America using the Democratic republic we all know and love. Never has a country been so prosperous or as powerful providing for the entire world at times. Nor has the rule of law been so immaculately upheld. Like it or not this is the only way to create purpose and wealth in a free society. If you don't like it just move to socialist Europe and wait in line for medicine and toilet paper.
 
+Ryan M. Smith  I disagree with you Ryan.Though I understand what you are getting at. Most people do think beyond, however reality is reality. Im sure you have to get up tomorrow to go to work. That is reality. 
 
+Maxwell Smart your interpretation of this assumes that man cannot build tools in order to reap larger folds of goods. What this article is saying is man has the capability to make tools to feed the world, especially those whom are incapable of work due to a disability. The author is not saying we should teach our children not to work... One still has to work to build this tool in the first place, and maintain it for that matter. What he's implying is, rather than needlessly toil over a tool solvable labor, that we could be spending our lives toiling to solve more challenging/pressing issues! I.e. let men dream dreams, if they have a passion, provide them the chance. There is no reason for us to plow the soil with our bare hands, just to "make a living."
 
Sounds lovely...except that most folks work a shitty job they hate NOT because they feel an obligation to prove their worth, but because our society requires a source of income. We must bring home the cash & only then can we think about pursuing the dreams that really would make us happy.
 
Cloe Jennings,yes,and the Raven is one of the hardest 'Working Birds', in our world to-day,also notice that much of the food the 'Raven' eats,is from our own waste foods and stuff we throw away,also the 'Raven' is out in any and 'ALL' weather ,so it is also specially blessed by Gad as it was the 'First bird' after the Great Flood,to be sent out to see if there was dry land,so nice point there,thanks,!!
 
Were are talking about employing 3 billion americans with jobs that can sustain their livelihoods, not which job I think is more relevant. Jobs and labor are being displaced by automation and cybernated systems (atms, self checkouts, etc) which is creating material abundance that could cover human needs several times over but leaving no one employed to pay for it. Backwards thinking from the 1800's is dominating our way of life for no other purpose than a fear that alot of people who dont need to work in menial jobs, wont.
 
I disagree +Frank Pages . I work with a lot of very smart and well educated people who wouldn't know what to do next if someone wasn't there telling them. I truly think people are scared to be on their own or wouldn't even know what to do with their "free time".
 
I think Fuller would be shocked at the consumerist's we have become, and possibly revise his statement.
 
If you're not going to earn a living, don't expect that you're entitled to the wealth that has been earned by someone else's living.
 
There may be a kernel of insight in Fuller's quote, even if it is a controversial and problematic collection of ideas. I have always wondered why any of us have to justify our right to exist. On the other hand, justifying our right to exist isn't necessarily what "earning a living" is all about. Earning a living seems to be more about how and where we position ourselves within the stratified society that we continually create. I think if working had anything to do with justifying existence, those who didn't work would simply be executed or forced into labour camps. Luckily, we don't have a system like that!
 
Again I say: Read this book for a good treatment of a post scarcity society - yes its fiction, yes its idealized - but you MIGHT get a glimpse of something wonderful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_from_Yesteryear
 
OOOPPS, Guess no one clued him in that the vast majority of jobs being created are low paying service jobs. With no end in sight.

Makes for nice print for those who believe every thing that's tied up in a ribbon and dangled in front of them.


 
+Ryan M. Smith  Yes That is the truth.Many folks do not think beyond. However society must continue. If everyone was an intellectual then the system would not work.  There is a place for the common worker and a place for the ones who provide the work. Thats just the way it is. Its only nature taking its course.
 
It would take a total recalibration of our value system.
People would need to truly take pride in their jobs, and gain satisfaction from a job well done. The concept of some jobs being more prestigious would need to be abolished, and maybe replaced by the concept that some jobs are more essential. (Imagine a sanitation worker knowing that his job keeps people from falling sick and maintains the function and beauty of a city, whereas a lawyer is just a bureaucratic paper pusher). 
Everyone's needs would have to be met. Food, clothing, shelter, health-care, education. The key would have to be that nobody is left in need of anything.
I mean if you think about it, American Cinema is what really caused the collapse of Communism.
 
I love all these people repeating rhetoric about Utopias, providing access to life sustaining goods without human labor isn't a utopia its just much better than what we do now. You and everyone one around you would be free to answer the question "what do you want to do when you grow up" without worrying if it will have the potential to make you a millionaire. Or if some peoples answer is nothing, they wouldnt prevent you from having a high standard of living.
 
Where else do you think the idea of taxing the rich and giving stimulous to the poor came from!
 
Plato would be proud -- of course he thought that the unpaid ones would all be politicians -- just because serving the cause was the highest calling.  Silly Rabbit.
 
Well said, Giles. Anyone disputing Utopia is a poop head that doesn't belong. I say the world should be made up of 2 distinct lands, 1 is 'Utopia' and the other, 'Non-Utopia'. You choose. 
 
Issac Asimov wrote a S-F short story about a society where nobody had to work--robots and other machines did everything.  Eventually the society collapsed out of sheer boredom.  Fuller was right, though.  Most jobs are really unnecessary; but as long as some people have to work, they will demand that everyone does.  The biggest  "undone" job in the world is to eliminate poverty, hunger and slavery.  This  is completely doable if the "haves" would suddenly forget that they derive  great pleasure over controlling the "have-nots".  John Lennon had it right in his song "Imagine".
 
Some cleric once said that "Imagine" was the most subversive song ever written.  I agree. (And wouldn't it be wonderful if all the lyrics came true!!)
Mike J.
 
On the one hand, the discussion here is rather interesting, with brief interludes of total nonsense. On the other hand, I'm inclined to dismiss the initial post entirely, based on +Clifton Farmer 's comment.
It's an interesting phenomenon here in G+...take the best & brightest, and chop them into little meme-size pieces. Is there a post by the custodian of the +Albert Einstein account here that discusses his works in depth, or are they all inspirational quotes?
 
+James Higgs Nope, you completely missed it. His point is that in the future, there will either be fewer jobs, or more unnecessary/redundant jobs.
 
So Charles, Since we are taking sides.
It begs the question..  Are you a "have" or a "have not"?
 
+cody moore can you give some specific examples and sources of where America leads the world in anything? I'm not trying to knock America (every country has it's fair share of problems including mine) I just don't think the evidence backs up what your saying. Sure America may well be prosperous but a larger percentage of people in America live below the poverty than Russia and America had a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba. Is that something to be proud of? The same applies to my country and I'm certainly not which is why I don't say my country is amazing. Because it isn't.
 
I believe it helps if you are employed in "higher education" if you want to spout this kind of crap. You feel everyone should be able to do nothing for lots of money because that's how you live.
 
This concept is wholly incorrect. 
 
Hey I'm 46 and I thought this way over 30 years ago... me no zombie nor a follower..
& I have a 22 yo @ home with me..who I willingly financially support.. so he doesn't have to get caught up in the spinning wheels of a mad society.. & can go forth and have unique experiences..
He has never been a burden to society.. never wasted police resources because he ain't no petty thief nor chemical user.. he is polite and considerate and charming and he is that way because I never threw him amongst the 'sharks'

It works for us so this nonsesnse that he has to work will never make sense to me... just sayin' ............ : )

 
There are those who seek better lives for all, probably more than 1 in 10k. It's the greedy ones that get in the way of this.
 
+SHAAN XI  Thats great you did a good job as a mom. You showed him the ropes. Most important you gave him love. That is the most important thing a person can receive. If you give your child love then they wont seek it in things that dont matter.
 
It only works IF the one in ten thousand shares the wealth with the rest of society. In the West that doesn't happen....Time to find a job in China
 
Well I'll just sit on my butt all day and do nothing. I won't starve cause I can eat crispity crunchedy bucky balls. Mmmm nom nom. Thank you Mr Fuller for your 1 in 10000 contribution. Wait, who are you going to sell your innovation to, if only 1 in 10000 are producing and earning a living? Hmmm, you know Communism looks good on paper too.
 
i disagree with him, and will take my beating. One needs to earn his daily bread, even if it is simply plucking it off a tree. I trade value for someone else's value. I have to have a 'job' - that is produce value - but it doesn't have to be 'work.' Now, if we leave the Industrial model behind and simply refer to agrarian, hunter gatherer, and like the lilies of the field not toil, then sure. However at this point I there are a lot of us and I would ned to see the transition plan. I am not saying everyone has to be an industrial drudge. But it would require a shift in culture and thought - and while I would be interested to see ideas and then maybe pursue it - i think this can be taken out of context.
 
+Carl Heppenstall you are incorrectly describing entitlement. No one would be producing anything that other people benefits from, anymore than you pay extra money to the Edison estate for each light bulb you buy. People don't make or invent technology, they discover it, they should be regaled by society but suggesting the only means of meaningful compensation is monetary would be shortsighted and counterproductive. Also I'm wondering how you've confused people not using money as jobs and labor being replaced by machines or technology with people receiving lots of money for work people aren't doing.
 
in the future each factory will have a man and a dog. the man feeds the dog and the dog keeps the man from touching the machinery.
 
Wow, what a very good statement. I agree with Richard 100%.
 
Must have been a while since I heard that much horse manure.
 
Bucky was great but this is silly, how does this economy work? 1 in 10000 is recognised as making a breakthrough but they had a dozen or more colleagues, an organisational infrastructure of dozens, hundreds or thousands more that enabled their success and they stood on the intellectual shoulders of tens of thousands of productive contributors before them.  If only 1 in 10000 bother to show up then what do the rest of us do play WOW?  No we need everyone to hook in and contribute meaningfully, and yes this can still be factory work if  a person is not inclined or personally or structurally unable to contribute more than that.  Invented jobs still exist in large bureaucracies but they are dying out as we cannot afford the waste any more.
 
EVERY ONE HAS RIGHT TO LIVING.  AT THE SAME TIME, EVERY ONE HAS TO EARN LIVING; OTHERWISE HIS CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY AT LARGE WILL NE NOTHING AND HE WILL NOT KNOW VALUE OF LIVING.
 
Earning my keep is only half the reason I work.  With my near total misanthropy, I'd become a shut in real damn fast if I never had a reason to leave the house.  So working, for me, is sort of like therapy.  I loath every minute of it, but it helps keep me from becoming completely start raving mad.  Besides, if I were on the opposite side, I can't imagine being fine with have 9,999 people living the high life at my expense.  All the way around I find this philosophy to be a terrible idea.
 
This argument of his is absolutely STUPID. Our society is already like that but instead of requiring nothing, it adds an incentive for people to create new technologies. Nothing motivates one to change their circumstances like living in circumstances they don’t like. All this man’s argument does is remove incentive. As machines took over the assembly line, it paved the way for new professions, people to manufacture the machines, to assemble the machines, to maintain the machines, to monitor the machines, to design an effective layout for the machines and to remove the machines.

His argument ignores basic human nature. It ignores greed and envy, love and hate. This nature exists regardless of machines. With no motivation to increase one’s standing in comparison with their peers, they will either become depressed or insane, given enough time
 
I can see the merit in some of what he says....why should ANY of us feel like we have to justify our existence?
 
+Josh Mckibbin and +Mark C I don't know if your "intellectual" attack on +Maxwell Smart was meant for harm (sure looks that way), if so what an arrogant position you put yourself in to say just because someones religion is involved their argument is invalidated. Lol...talk about stupid... do you not see that you claim against Maxwell's position is a faith based assertion? Can you prove his beliefs wrong? If you can you must be some all knowing god or something...

For as much as atheist claim how intolerant the religious are (mostly pointing out the "uneducated" aspects), I have never seen so much intolerance than in the atheist camp (from those who are supposedly "educated"). Lol...Atheism takes an amazing amount of arrogance to believe. Google+ is rife with you guys slamming the religious as if you all have some "higher knowledge"...funny enough, for as much as you guys claim you don't live by faith but by sight...your full of it... Everything you say science does to prove God does not exist is a faith claim.

So for you Mr intolerant...thanks for representing the atheist community in an arrogant and generally crappy way.
 
We're all needing to get Hour finger out and start working for Hour Society! Too many people don't care what is happening to Hour Planet and don't even know who they're Boss is. R E S P E C T others,we all have to live here together.It's TIME you stopped enjoying the job title and begin to function as a useful member of a community.R E S P E C T (That gap was left for media and propaganda to pass through uninterrupted) If you know your life and world it is easy to read propaganda like it is a Billboard advert. Keep it Real,Keep it Local. Peace.

We have enjoyed Peace in the UK for 67years and (take a look in the mirror) you don't want to learn how to do things properly.

Like the Sanitation worker knowing his jobs prevents sickness,you need learn the effects of your actions.It comes down to "Do you want to Help?"...you could be an anarchist.I should help people with Low self esteem because everyone has rights but you shouldn't right a person off for one reason, just because they're not skinny, people have greater attributes than looks,strength,wisdom,patience,compassion...Yes! We are young but that doesn't stop US learning Traditional Ways to prosperity. Best wishes in protecting Hour vulnerable peace.

PS As rasti pasidalyti su Exploiters sunkus!
 
Imagine, we were not forced into earning a living, instead incentivized to think and innovate only, we'd be a 1000000 fold superior right now.
 
+Frank Pages that's right ... love and the nurturing of love is waaay more conducive to humanity than the acquisition of status and 'things'... food on the table, the roof over ones' head and comfortably appropriate clothes. ( weather appropriate ) & one is already richer than the masses.. thank you for your words ; )
 
Devin Christensen, agreed. As Jean-Babtiste Emanuel Zorg said to Cornelius, "Life, which you so nobly serve, comes from destruction, disorder and chaos. Now take this empty glass. Here it is: peaceful, serene, boring. But if it is destroyed [Pushes the glass off the table. It shatter on the floor, and several small machines come out to clean it up] Look at all these little things! So busy now! Notice how each one is useful. A lovely ballet ensues, so full of form and color. Now, think about all those people that created them. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people, who will be able to feed their children tonight, so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain of life. You see, father, by causing a little destruction, I am in fact encouraging life. In reality, you and I are in the same business."
 
spaceship earth .... but who drives, and what if some of the passengers don't like it?  There is no reason for selfishness, but lots of us still pratice it.
 
+X Rellix you're joking right? You are not forced to earn a living by anyone but your own desire to eat and have shelter. And my guess is you complain about that too.
 
Ah, but what if you earn a living doing something you enjoy?
 
That's too long!!! I only read smarticle stuff like that when I'm in school
 
Hook me up to the machine that supplies me with everything I want while I go to school forever. Thank you.
 
I really want to talk on this subject but I have to get to work
 
THis is more of a statement on that whole tale we are told about finding who we are in the world, go to college, get a good education, but tuition is murder. I believe we could benefit by going back to basics and honing skills we discover we have at our youths and building an community environment. Right now we are "bees in the trap"! And that is an actual song.
 
What a dumbass philosophy... It may sound cool to all your hippie friends to wax poetic about no one needs to earn a living. Well I don't know what kind of sharefest you are running in commie town but in America you should pay for yourself.
 
If I may, I believe what the quote is trying to say is "find something you love to do and you will never have to work a day in your life" (Confucius). If we use all the knowledge accumulated by generations of thinkers and doers, the basic necessities of life can be taken care of with very little work. Providing food for everyone does not have to be a painstaking task, permaculturists out there would agree with me. Providing shelter for everyone can be a community project that brings people together, natural builders out there would agree with me. Those are the essentials in Life along with relationships for most of us. With that provided, musicians, writers, actors and other artists of all sorts would be able to be creative for creativity's sake and not be driven by profit (I believe artists would agree with me that mostly having to sell their work to live stifles their creative mind). Same would go for scientists, technologists of all kinds and other pioneers. Dreaming and working towards achieving those dreams would finally be feasible again instead of relentlessly working towards making profit for someone (and just enough for yourself) as the end goal, then going out and spending it on things; things that quickly become obsolete or unfashionable and that we need to replace with other things, so we need to keep working. That's if we are lucky enough not to be in debt.

In the context of our current system, this quote from Fuller could be seen as insane.  But if we think about it outside this context, based on the idea that this system doesn't have to be the last one humanity creates (mustn't be, considering the state of the world), then not only does it make sense, but it is very much something to be desired.

Detractors would probably start talking about crimes and free-loaders, my answer to them is that those would ween themselves out in time. Gibran Khalil Gibran summarizes it beautifully in his poem "Your thoughts and mine":

"The subjects of your thought are thieves, criminals, and assassins.
Mine declares that thieves are the creatures of monopoly, criminals are the offspring of tyrants, and assassins are akin to the slain."

We obviously cannot flip a switch and make all of this happen instantly. But what is the alternative ? To give up on the idea without having tried ? To make due with life instead of living it ?

My happiness will come from living the kind of Life i choose not the life I was told I had to live by History. I will pursue it. The more people do, the more people will. And then who knows...

This comment is the fruit of my procrastination of the work i currently get paid to do :)
 
Please. Communism was given a real try. It CLEARLY doesn't work. Pure capitalism doesn't work either... Ummm Great Depression and Current Great Recession are examples of that.
The best solution is a well governed, and regulated Capitalist system, where hard work often but, sadly not always, leads to a decent life and living.
 
who cares what it says just read it and it will tell you what you need to know
 
+Franklin Stone and as a human, you have beliefs. Which belief system most closely resembles yours. I'm not going to hold you to every belief of that system, I am just curious.
 
Either you Dont Get  It,  Didnt Read It,Have ADD, or just like typing,when i read this shit it reminds how desperately i need to get a fuckn life !thanks for your IGNORANTISM  !! IM inspired hey Franklin Stone ANAL mean anything to you? Im all for BUCKMINSTERISM !!!
 
It's really interesting that so many people reject this, since it's essentially very similar to the ideal model of the western family, and by extension the original tribal structure from which we developed. 
Bill L
 
This is shit.
 
The one resource they always leave out of the "resource based economy" is the human resource. They take for granted that the liberals would lift a finger to do any of the hard work required to build, sustain, and grow such an economy.
 
+James Murphy Bucky Fuller's statement quoted here was made over 50 years ago when industrial manufacturing employed tens of millions of people and we exported goods all over the world (correction: I meant America by "we" since Bucky Fuller was speaking as an American).

If you're lucky enough to have grandparents 60-70+ years old most of them will tell you how great it was to get a job in a manufacturing plant "back in the day".  This is my point about the quote being out of context -- it's easy to think this is a modern day quote about communism but without context a reasonable person wouldn't know.  The micro blog medium allows this sort of schlocky softball pitch to be lobbed into the news stream completely out of context when the person who originally said it was probably trying to express a multi-page complex socio-economic commentary.  

That was the type of guy Bucky Fuller was -- completely out of the box but a massively deep thinker.  He was taken out of context by newsmen and pundits repeatedly in his day. He was a truly eccentric character that gave us incredible inventions (not just borrowing or stealing as somebody above claimed).  

To your point, services, not manufactured goods are our main output now.  So Fuller's statement isn't as relevant to manufacturing as it is to the service production line nowadays -- and I'm sure there are hundreds of talented people here who go to their production line service job who are trying to figure out alternatives.  

I love all the perspectives on this thread from modern-day utopians to Darwinian capitalists.  The DISCONTENTMENT I hear from many angles is the root of true innovation!  Bucky almost committed suicide out of discontentment but pulled himself out of it by pledging he would never commit his brilliance to things he considered idiocy.  From that day on, he committed to doing whatever it took to being an inventor.  He was a freak of nature in the most positive sense.  

My main point here is to challenge my citizen brethren to use their discontentment PLUS talents to do something good, to experiment, to find a human problem that is massively scary and appears insurmountable and devise some way to change it.  Bucky Fuller deduced that achieving something meaningful to humanity required him to work outside the box.  He never earned great wealth, but he gave humanity incredible solutions to problems we humans were just accepting and working around for a long time.  
 
The people posting about this leading to kids sense of entitlement are not very bright. The reason he is saying this is that there simply will not be enough jobs for unintelligent people to be employed (That is intelligent by learning capability). With the rapid advancement of computers the large majority of jobs will be easily and cheaply replaced. Meaning all of the people arguing that everyone should have a job will be jobless and poor unless the world moves to a more socialist, communist societal. What the quote is saying is that less than one percent of the world has made every major advancement that has led to our society today and the rest have contributed much less to that. This will lead to people being jobless because their only inherent value is reproduction and possibly entertainment. Oh and to the people saying that the ones who invent everything should have everything and be super wealthy clearly cant understand that maybe helping billions of other people is good enough for those with an intelligence larger enough to achieve what they have.
 
So in other words: people should expect other people to provide for them. We have the right to enslave those who have the ability to support us through their ingenuity and work.

This is fucking amoral bullshit. Whoever agrees with this dead asshole is an affront to humanity.
 
Man, people will always be looking for a way to get out of work. Thank the Lord the people giving away the free rides never take this attitude
 
+Mostafa Habib Brilliant minds have a history of doing things for humanity even when they are actively being told not to and threatened with dire consequences.I think it's safe to say that many people would continue to explore the world around them. Besides, if everyone's basic needs are being met, who gives a crap how slowly we progress? What's the rush?
 
+Sean Stanley "Brilliant minds have a history of doing things for humanity even when they are actively being told not to and threatened with dire consequences"

Really? I guess that's why so much innovation comes from russia, china (>1/7th of the worlds population), and north korea. Or are those countries just filled with stupid people?

"Besides, if everyone's basic needs are being met, who gives a crap how slowly we progress? What's the rush?"

Well let's see, the earth should experience another ice age in the next few thousand years. The sun will burn out eventually. Life saving medicine will be invented too late to save many. And as that mentality spreads like a disease through society, progress will just stop.
 
The problem is that some people aren't thinking with the right head.
 
lol... and who is going to pay the tuition fee for me?
 
We tried this once in America were only a few people worked to support everyone else. It was called slavery. Ask the blacks how that went.
 
How ignorant some folks can be.  I threw up a little in my mouth just reading this nonsence.  Read the Bible Richard.......if a man doesn't work, he shouldn't eat.
 
Honestly the ones who have provided innovation are only a few and the majority are those who inherit their earnings or stole it from another to invest a product that can be given to those deemed worthy
 
Many studies have shown that people are actually much more productive when they are doing what they want to do. They work, harder, longer and better. it's a fact.
So yeah maybe at first people would slack off for a while, but eventually they would feel the need and desire to do something that they like, something productive. Maybe it's micro brewing beer, maybe it's making surfboards, at some point they will start to contribute in some meaningful way.
 
Lol, +Dan O'Brien that's the best you can do? Critique an inevitable fact? I'm not too hurt that you think I'm dumb, I have a pretty low opinion of the intelligence of communists. You're brilliance is shining as you continually prove you can do nothing but critique others opinions without providing anything of substance, all while doing a little name calling. Keep up the good work Einstein! 
 
+Devin Christensen if I were to become a billionaire tomorrow - is there any point in me working away for food & shelter? Its more efficient for me yo spend my time on a new technological innovation to further humanity. The point of the post is that collectively we are billionaires - all of us - if we applied current technologies to its fullest in a fair manner.
 
if we all lived in a magic bubble or cloud la la land...
 
I want to be able to go back to school and think about that MBA.
 
All the time I'll give this loser.....one word......pathetic..
 
+Michael Kost How many times will people have to learn the lesson that CAPITALISM always ends in tears for everyone but the RICH before people will give up on thus utopian nonsense? They all think they'll be the ones to BE RICH. Problem is, the leaders live well,  everybody else starves as a slave to the RICH.

Who pays you? Do you need that money to live? Can you quit your job today, and eat and maintain your household tomorrow? What about the next day? Are you truly free, or simply free to choose your master?

Communism is a relatively new idea, capitalism is what humans have been doing for thousands of years. Communism is an economic system, not a system of government. A true communist democracy has never been tried, only corrupted democracies and dictatorships. Capitalist or communist, corrupted democracies and dictatorships will always turn oppressive towards their people and fail at some point.

Quit listening to the propaganda and think for yourself for once.
 
So many of the commenters are part of the problem rather than the solution. Keep chasing the "anyone can make it if they work hard enough" dream lie. It's sure to work for you.
 
Yeah a world where the 9,999 are fat blobs in floating video chairs like the film Wall-E 
 
Those who are sick or disabled, kids, and the elderly should have to earn a living too. I'm tired of their excuses. If I have to work so does everyone else... ever. And don't get me started on those animal freeloaders we call 'pets'. EVERYONE GET A JOB!!
 
FOR THOSE THOSE THAT BELIEVE THAT ONES' ON SOCIAL SECURITY, DISABILITY,AND KIDS'....WOW...IM SOOO SORRY TO NOT, NOT GIVE A DAMN...I USE TO WORK 90-120 HOURS A WEEK...UMMM...BEEN ON DISABLITY FOR 17yrs...within 2 yrs of being in recovery, I needed to keep busy...Other than going to doctor visits, counciling, theropy, and finding a way to COPE WITH NOT WORKING, and wondering why Im not able to stay stable...Finally took the ranes after 4 going on 5 yrs...Been helping as MY MIND and BODY allow me to function in a "SOCIETY NORM" WAY OF LIFE...IM NOT POINTING FINGERS', BUT, UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU OR A CLOSE IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR FRIEND...I DONT FEEL JE O LOUS LY BOUT NOT WORKING...Yet, after 15 yrs...I do what I can for the community I live/reide in...That is more than I care to say for those that work, an dare not wanting to just say they are jeolous of the ones that dont work and get a "CHECK, WHILE SITTING ON THERE BUTTS"... www.hometogether.org ....
 
+John Cooper "we tried this once before"?? Really?!? How did you get from Fuller's quote to slavery!!?? 
 
The one in 10,000 that Fuller refers to is a probability. It does not mean one person 'working' and the other 9,999 people doing nothing. If the odds of making these technological breakthroughs are really 1 in 10,0000 and have delivered everything from the wheel to the microchip, we should be dedicating more people to discovering these breakthroughs than to doing repeatative menial tasks that barely 'earn' us a living.
 
it could indeed really work. It takes a shift in thinking from economics of artificial scarcity into an economics of abundance.  The raw materials are there, it just takes a shift in thinking.
 
Nonsense.  Working, in and of itself, has a personal reward.  
 
I don't consider "earning a living" as just being paid to live. In my life, and work I meet new friends, aquaintences and learn about how others think, react and are in general. Being employed isn't the same as working for a living. If you aren't getting that "feeling of accomplishment" or reward in your career. Find what drives you and do it. Money be damned!
 
+X Rellix and at that point you would have earned your keep until you spent it all. There is no collective us. Why People want to try out the failed system of communism, is beyond me.
 
What a great thought provoking post this has been!
 
hey, he is the scientist who discovered buckminsterfullerene, a highly stable form of carbon. he has the honor of having it named after him.
 
+Dustin Lane lmao, you ignore the fundamental issue (in which capitalism fixes) that is mobility between classes. In communism there is no mobility, no chance to be rich. There is only the ruling class and everyone else.

Capitalism has great mobility through the classes. Every week a rich man becomes poor and a poor man becomes rich. the recipe is hard work and dedication.

The BS that 'true communism has never been tried' is just that. Where are these angels that will be running said communism? is it you? I don't trust you to do it, do you trust me to? Where are these perfect, non-greedy people who power does not corrupt?
 
Ah Devin, you waiting for the Great Pumpkin too?
 
Tommy Meador= ignorant, stop the bible babble bullshit !!!QUIT bringing up shit that doesnt matter,FUCK all this stupid shit ,go primitive,live off the land,then none of this shit matters,now that would be PROGRESSION !!!!! or would that be way to much WORK for all you degree toting assholes that graduated on GOVERNMENT money ?
 
Many people don't understand why communism failed. Yes is was killed by corruption and greed, but that corruption and greed was fueled by western media.

Essentially people were dissatisfied with their lives in comparison to the lives of the people portrayed on TV and in movies that were being pumped from the west. The dream of the 1% lifestyle killed it.

The thing is, the 1% lifestyle is not something that you need, or even necessarily that you would even conceive or want on your own unless it's marketed to you. You don't know that a Ferrari is better than a Toyota if the media doesn't tell you. You want to live like a king? No problem, you already live better, more comfortable lives than many thousands of historical kings. 

Is your life horrible and unbearable now? Most will answer no, but I can guarantee that next week, next month or next year the media will convince you that you need a new gadget, that you can't live without it, that your standard of living is horrible if you don't have the next, newest TV, or some new feature in your car, or something else that you are living without right now perfectly happily. 

They convince you "that more for me" is the greatest ideal. They convince you so well that you don't even see the hypocrisy when you teach your kids "it's good to share" and live your life the opposite, you don't even see the contradiction.

Even in this post I see example of people who are trying to be good Christians using quotes from the Bible to justify NOT giving charity, and NOT caring for their fellow man.
 
I just want to say that there is a significant qualitative difference between the comments of the liberals and those of the conservatives. 
 
I believe he means that the fruit of his labor and not the wages of his labor will benefit 9999...and that is Christian
 
Let me sum up the two views here. Not the intent of the original post, but rather the substance of the comments and their view on materialism and wealth.

Communist/socialist: no one needs or should have that much.
Capitalists: everyone should have that much.
 
I think it would be more accurate to say that the views here are more along the lines of:
No one should hoard wealth to the detriment of others.
 
+Franklin Stone Look up John Smith at Jamestown. That's an example of a failed (initially anyway) society where not everyone worked. For a society to function, everyone must contribute something.  

When two parties exchange, then they both walk away richer than before. This the only way wealth is generated. Capitalism. Free market. All other ways are simply a transfer of wealth. Communism. Marxism. 

Of course not everyone is going to love their job at first. We start at the bottom and strive to reach higher. At some point, everyone can achieve a job they enjoy. To think otherwise is a cop-out. In my experience, the people who hate their jobs are 1) afraid to take a risk to improve the situation, or 2) unwilling to work hard enough to achieve more. 

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Life and liberty are rights. Happiness must be sought after. 
 
Oh Mr. +Dan O'Brien if you had actually read my summary or had the capacity to understand it (I'm not sure which it was) you would know I was not simplifying capitalism and communism, as they are both complex and world's apart. My post was a summary of ideas expressed by those sympathetic to each idea. Please read to understand.

(oh, and an inevitable fact is a phrase that means something. It is a fact that no matter how much you try to ignore it, it will happen. Death is an inevitable fact as well. Did you not know that the sun WILL burn out? It's not a question of if it will, but when it will.) 
 
+Dan O'Brien well, I started out 8 yrs ago making $9/hr as an assistant manager at a pizza place (sub poverty line, and the original position was delivery driver). Then, I developed a skill set in electronics and have progressed to making 60k/yr plus bonuses. On the side I'm starting my own business to provide my services to large companies, once that gets going (as it has already begun to pick up steam) I'll be making figures in the top 10%. And at that point I can start employing others to grow my business more rapidly.

Take a look at the local franchisees and business owners in your town. Most, if not all, of them weren't born into the upper echelon.

Take a look at Donald Trump and Dave Ramsey. Both have gone from poor to rich, back to poor and back to rich. That's class mobility.

The only time class mobility is hindered in a capitalist society happens when government rewards or bails out bad behavior, which keeps the upper class in that class when they should lose their business to someone who is handling their affairs properly. 
 
+Mostafa Habib I agree, the current system is not perfect, far from. But it's world's ahead of communism.

He wanted an example of moving through the classes, so I provided my experience along with some folks that I know have had similar.

I'll address interest when I get to a desktop or laptop.
 
"Since interest is allowed in savings accounts in banks then the rich dont have to contribute anything and they will continue to become richer."

Do you know what banks do with that money sitting in a bank account that accrues interest? They loan it to others for cars, houses, medical bills, small businesses etc... They give the account holder a cut of the interest they charge on the loan. So while they [the rich] are not directly contributing, they are by having it in a savings account. It is one of worst ways to grow wealth since the rate is usually less than or equal to inflation, but that money is being used by others to propel and grow the economy.

Maybe I misunderstood your complaint, if so, let me know.
 
the most fundamental error here is to assume that money is the perfect way to trade skill for skill.

please remember that money is artificial, we invented it, to show the difference between the worth of an hour, ploughing a field, the worth of an hour making a plough, the worth of an hour designing a new plough that ploughs faster, and an hour planning out what to plant, for best return on those hours!

money is no longer the best method of sharing skills, as technology improves even service industry jobs will be automated. as this occurs we will have less employment under this capitalist method of reward and work.

we need a new method, not capitalist, not socialist! not controlled by a few who seek to gain from others labour. the ability to create, food, clothing whatever will be so automated, and so simplistic, that the present world economy will cease to have meaning!

all of us will be looking for a new way to work!

It is not 1 person working to support 10,000...

it is 1 person inventing a way to let 10,000 be free from having to support themselves.
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